Tanks and Walls

ncpanther · Post by **ncpanther** » Fri Oct 27, 2000 2:03 pm

Not sure if this has been brought up , but I cant find it if it has. I'm playing an email game and my T-34s keep crashing into walls and getting immobilized. When I mentioned this to my enemy, he said he was having the same problem. So now we both have tank forces in our rear areas that will never see battle. This has reduced the fight to an inf battle. (which I dont mind) and I guess its kinda realistic but that aint the point. Is this a new bug or the same old one comming up again? even if we move one hex at a time around a wall the tank will still crash into it. Anyone else having this problem?? Any fix?

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NC
Airborne Sappers Lead the way!!
SAPPERS ATTACK!!!!

Warhorse · Post by **Warhorse** » Fri Oct 27, 2000 3:03 pm

Guess I'm lucky, but haven't had too much problem with this. I did have three Hungarian CV 33's run buildings down when I was careless, and just ckicked at the end of the movement radius, when there was a row of buildings next to the units!! Just plain carelessness here, then to do it two more times, doh!;-)

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Mike Amos
Meine Ehre Heisst Treue

Fredde · Post by **Fredde** » Fri Oct 27, 2000 3:37 pm

Even if you move one hex at the time around the wall the tank will run into it and become immobilized? I never saw that. Can it be some issue with "invisible" building hexes? If you move the cursor over the road hex in particular, does it say anything about buildings?

Haven't seen it yet in 4.4, and not for a long time in the earlier versions as well (except when using whole formation moves)

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Fri Oct 27, 2000 3:53 pm

There is a rather long explanation as to why this sometimes happens. The AI does not see those walls. It is looking for the quickest route to where you want it to go.

When around walls, buildings, etc, move slowly, hex by hex, carefully, which really a tank would do anyway.

Those tank drivers seem to get a charge out of busting walls.

Wild Bill

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

ncpanther · Post by **ncpanther** » Fri Oct 27, 2000 4:58 pm

Thanks All. I have had this both moving to end of movement radius AND when moving 1 hex at a time. However, it does not happen on road hexs its off road hexs that seem to be affected.

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NC
Airborne Sappers Lead the way!!
SAPPERS ATTACK!!!!

Drake · Post by **Drake** » Fri Oct 27, 2000 5:26 pm

That can happen when a map is not will made. A wall can be overlaping into a hex that done look like it has a wall.

Myself when I make maps I make that nothing overlapes or anything like that.

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Fri Oct 27, 2000 7:05 pm

I've run into this several times: moving 1 hex at a time and crashing/immob my tank. In every case, I hovered over the hex to read the terrain and it was listed as a wall or some other tread buster. But the killer is - it was never visible on the map. The hex had no wall graphic! I've had the reverse happen as well; I'm near a wall and the "move radius" hexes leak out through a wall that's plainly drawn. I check the hex with my cursor and it does not report a wall in the hex. I then drive through it without harm.

We seem to be able to show one thing but have the hex be something else. I'll bet it happens as the map is corrected or modified by the designer.

Tommy

Fredde · Post by **Fredde** » Fri Oct 27, 2000 7:38 pm

A very dumb question. Are you sure it's not just random breakdowns?

ncpanther · Post by **ncpanther** » Fri Oct 27, 2000 8:41 pm

Originally posted by Fredde:
A very dumb question. Are you sure it's not just random breakdowns?

POSITIVE!!! ya hear and see the crash and the wall collapse and your immob. Guess I'll just have to be even more careful. LOL this should be an interesting battle though.!!

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NC
Airborne Sappers Lead the way!!
SAPPERS ATTACK!!!!

Arralen · Post by **Arralen** » Fri Oct 27, 2000 9:28 pm

Talking about

a) buildings

or

b) walls ??

Buildings .. 2 problems here:

- displayed incorrectly; point the mouse to a hex, if the pop-up says "building", than there is a building, nomatter how the map looks like

- may occupy the same hex as a trail/road; AI still has problems navigating around those; again look at the pop-up window if there's a building in the hex or not

Walls:

Single problem - are displayed as walls

I mean, they look like a long, thin line, but in fact the whole hex is marked as "wall", so even if it looks like there's more then enough room to drive through, in fact you can't avoid crashing into the wall .

Hope this helps.

Arralen

Drake · Post by **Drake** » Fri Oct 27, 2000 10:03 pm

Originally posted by Fredde:
A very dumb question. Are you sure it's not just random breakdowns?

Never a dumb question, just dumb answers

CommieKiller · Post by **CommieKiller** » Sat Oct 28, 2000 8:03 pm

Hey folks,
Fairly new to wargamming and really new to SPWAW (past week). I also have the habit of having armor running into buildings. Is there any way to recover the vehicles? The current military has recovery vehicles, were they available in WWII? If so could they be added to the vehicle list?
Any help would be appreciated.

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Sun Oct 29, 2000 1:17 am

We discussed recovery vehicles at length here, CK, but we decided that within the time frame of the game it was not feasible.

Of course you were not here then and did not know that. I understand.

Addressing this issue in detail. I think this problem is related to, as some of you have said, to map editing.

If you don't click clear terrain into hexes that you modify, vestiges of earlier terrain remain.

Examples: walls. Sometimes you have to click clear terrain twice into such a hex where you remove a wall to be sure it disappears.

Multihex buildings. A multihex building occupies 7 hexes, the center hex and six surrounding hexes. The art work, however, may not have a building in all 7 hexes.

So it behooves the designer to click clear terrain into those hexes where none or a tiny piece of a building touch a hex. If not, even though it looks clear, it is considered "building" hex.

I have been guilty of this too many times and am trying to correct any such problems.

Also, clicking and reclicking a building hex sometimes makes the building "grow" or become taller, you can occasionally get some real skyscrapers.

Wild Bill

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Sun Oct 29, 2000 1:18 am

There is a new re-ocurrence of tanks going into buildings that we had eliminated earlier. I am encouraging our test group to look into this and resolve it.

Wild Bill

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

Kharan · Post by **Kharan** » Sun Oct 29, 2000 1:27 am

Originally posted by Commie:
Hey folks,
Fairly new to wargamming and really new to SPWAW (past week). I also have the habit of having armor running into buildings. Is there any way to recover the vehicles?

You can tow immobilized tanks with trucks (by loading them just like infantry), if they have the carry capacity. In one of my first online games a month or so ago I towed an immobilized Tiger to a good firing position with a Buessing-Naag truck.

CommieKiller · Post by **CommieKiller** » Sun Oct 29, 2000 7:34 am

Thanks for the info. I guess I need to be more careful while conducting MOUT.

Drake · Post by **Drake** » Sun Oct 29, 2000 7:54 am

Originally posted by Kharan:
You can tow immobilized tanks with trucks (by loading them just like infantry), if they have the carry capacity. In one of my first online games a month or so ago I towed an immobilized Tiger to a good firing position with a Buessing-Naag truck.

Thats something that should be fixed, it took two prime movers to move one tiger and they never would have moved it to were it could get shot at

Kharan · Post by **Kharan** » Sun Oct 29, 2000 8:46 am

Originally posted by Drake:

Thats something that should be fixed, it took two prime movers to move one tiger and they never would have moved it to were it could get shot at

Neither did the Tigers normally drive into stone buildings and walls

.

The problem is that all tanks, halftracks and armored cars have pretty much the same carry costs... if you have a truck with carry capacity of 2xx you can load any of them.

[This message has been edited by Kharan (edited October 28, 2000).]

ncpanther · Post by **ncpanther** » Mon Oct 30, 2000 4:39 pm

Originally posted by Arralen:
Talking about

Walls:

Single problem - are displayed as walls
I mean, they look like a long, thin line, but in fact the whole hex is marked as "wall", so even if it looks like there's more then enough room to drive through, in fact you can't avoid crashing into the wall .

Hope this helps.

Arralen

And this is the EXACT Problem we are having! I thought there was enough room and Bam! nope . well ya learn the hard way! Fighting has become house to house now with zero armor support on either side! This is one for the books. Bloody bloody bloody. !!! I'm pumped!

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NC
Airborne Sappers Lead the way!!
SAPPERS ATTACK!!!!