surface combat vs CV TF?

[dougmichel]

I have a saved game where the japs have their big CV fleet 4 hexes off the coast of singapore which has been sitting in the same hex for 3 days. I happened to have 40 or so surface combat ships in port there and tried about 6 or 7 times to get a fleet of 25 surface combat ships to engage in surface combat in the night turn. I tried surface combat with and without retirement, bombardment with both, tried replacing the fleet commander with a more aggressive officer, never once did I get a surface combat. I know normally air combat fleets do not like to engage in surface combat, but doesn't that get ignored when they are in patrol mode? They have to be in this mode since they just sit there for 3 days. Any ideas how I can engage them? I would really like to see a big surface attack between my BB, BC, CA, etc against their CV and BB fleet.

[Feinder]

Obviously, set your SC TF to the same destination hex as the CVs.
The problem you may be having is, if the SC TF can't detect the CV TF (at night) = no battle.
To improve your odds of a night engagement
a. Use an agressive commander w/ high naval rating.
b. Include ships with radar in your SC TF.
c. Send a sub to the hex with the CV TF ahead of your SC TF (sub can detect the enemy TF, even if it doesn't attack).

Be advised that CV TFs are pretty slippery. Even if you do trigger a surface engagement, the CVs will quickly try to run, and the screen ships will try to do their jobs (keep you away while the CVs escape). So don't get your hopes up on smashing a bunch of CVs with your SC TF (CVs are by their very nature, usuall quite fast).

If you allow to retire, your SC TF should make it back to Singers before daylight (the healthy option). Be cafeful about "patrol do not retire" if you send your SC TF out this way. This would give you a chance at night action. THen enemy TF bombs you in morning, and if anything survives, then you get to try to engage his CVs in a day battle (again they will run).

Good luck.
-F-

[dougmichel]

ok thanks, i figured the chances of hitting a CV in this way is slim, but still wanted to see it possibly happen.  I might give it a few more goes on that save game, but in my continuing version I was able to hit a couple of the CV with an air attack, 1 has heavy damage and a few others have some fires.  This left me with few planes in singapore, a bunch cannot get replacements, but I figure this might be worth the cost. 

[Feinder]

In one of my previous PBEM games, I've managed a rather fun SC vs CV engagement(s).

I had some throw-away CLs run out to hit the CVs. They put a few shells into Kaga (don't think they closed the deck tho). My CVs were also nearby. The morning came, and the enemy CVs pasted my SC TF (same hex): maybe they were considered imminent threat or something, because... My CVs were also within range, the strikes vs. my SC TF were NOT directed vs. my own CVs. My CVs then hit and pasted enemy CVs.

Next morning, I spooled out a few SC TFs to hunt down the cripped enemy CVs. Sure enough, Repulse caught Akagi, and (altho the lion-share of the work was done my divebombers the previous day), Akagi was listed as sunk by 15" guns (of Repulse).

Good times.

-F-

[Misconduct]

I had a bit of luck earlier in my game, its 8/5/43 and I just manged to take Saipan, same time I sent a CA, CL and 3 Fletchers far west about 9 Hex to scout for shipping, and ran into the Kaga at night, she took 26 hits, 2 torpedoes, while only 1 fletcher was sunk.

Bit surprised I wasn't looking for carriers either. I was lucky on the return trip I had nasty weather above me, saved the rest of the Surface fleet.

[dougmichel]

Well some good news for me, my planes did severe damage to the Kaga and another carrier, and the next day I sent a surface fleet out, engaged the Kaga and his 1 DD escort, and sent both to Davey Jones.  The rest of the carriers ran out of zeroes to defend (they have about 5 on CAP).  They took Singa which I figured was coming, but they sent their CVs down through Indonesia, where all my bombers, and the CV and CVL from the UK are.  Needless to say, I am guessing they will be quite lucky to get out of here with 1 still up.  My last turn my 2 CV hit 4 torps into another CV, and my land based bombers have started fires on another.  I don't think the flight deck is closed yet, and the other CV is basically undamaged.  They have approx 50 bombers left, which damaged my CVL enough to shut off the planes, but I will trade that for possibly 2 of thier CV any time.  Next few days I expect to finish off the damaged carrier and maybe even shut down flights on the last.
 
They also are having a bad time in Rabul with my 3 US CV (soon to be 4), they were unable to set up a proper airfield here due to my quick setup at PM with B-17s keeping their airfield low.  I set my CV F on full CAP, and killed off almost all zeroes and their Betties have been fleeing after taking several losses.  I hammered 4 BB, and around 6 CA, plus nearly 30 AP and AK ships plus assorted escorts.  It has been a bad week for the IJN (aside from taking 2100 VP from me at Singa).
 
I would say my learning campaign is going well, hopefully I get enough money tomorrow at Christams to buy AE.

[Misconduct]

ORIGINAL: dougmichel

Well some good news for me, my planes did severe damage to the Kaga and another carrier, and the next day I sent a surface fleet out, engaged the Kaga and his 1 DD escort, and sent both to Davey Jones.  The rest of the carriers ran out of zeroes to defend (they have about 5 on CAP).  They took Singa which I figured was coming, but they sent their CVs down through Indonesia, where all my bombers, and the CV and CVL from the UK are.  Needless to say, I am guessing they will be quite lucky to get out of here with 1 still up.  My last turn my 2 CV hit 4 torps into another CV, and my land based bombers have started fires on another.  I don't think the flight deck is closed yet, and the other CV is basically undamaged.  They have approx 50 bombers left, which damaged my CVL enough to shut off the planes, but I will trade that for possibly 2 of thier CV any time.  Next few days I expect to finish off the damaged carrier and maybe even shut down flights on the last.

They also are having a bad time in Rabul with my 3 US CV (soon to be 4), they were unable to set up a proper airfield here due to my quick setup at PM with B-17s keeping their airfield low.  I set my CV F on full CAP, and killed off almost all zeroes and their Betties have been fleeing after taking several losses.  I hammered 4 BB, and around 6 CA, plus nearly 30 AP and AK ships plus assorted escorts.  It has been a bad week for the IJN (aside from taking 2100 VP from me at Singa).

I would say my learning campaign is going well, hopefully I get enough money tomorrow at Christams to buy AE.

Ah your doing lot better then me sir, i'm on probably my 3rd or 4th campaign and haven't had that luck, I got trashed at Java and at Rabaul, however I took the losses and didn't goto a save game to least give the AI something to work with.

[dougmichel]

Yes I would say very lucky.  I notice that the sooner you get a ship on fire the higher % of bombs that start hitting, at least against capital ships.  I got one of my first planes to start a fire on some of these, and then it was a party.