AXIS Allied Troops

[vinnie71]

YAY! As realistic as can get! [:)]

Will we be able to control the flow and numbers of AFV and aircraft to minor allies or not?

[vinnie71]

BTW will allied troops be withrawn at certain dates?

I'm asking since most units were withrawn from the front when the Axis position collapsed in Russia. If the Axis managed to keep up their advances and basically bludgened the USSR over the years, they would have required even more rear area troops, which only the satellite states could provide. I'd agree with having the Italians withrawing at some date, but the Hungarians and Romanians would have remained in Russia if the Germans kept on winning...

[elmo3]

Italians start checking for withdrawal in Q2 '43 as it stands now.  Other allies can surrender if certain conditions are met but I don't see anything about withdrawals for them.  Please keep in mind this is still alpha so much is still subject to change.

[vinnie71]

Tnx for the answer! I know that mine is a what if scenario, but some (like me!) would try to rewrite history and defeat the Red Colossus. Therefore it would have been plausable that Axis minor powers would have maintained their armies in support of the Germans if they were winning for they had a stake in the invasion. None of these states (with the exception of Italy) gave up the struggle until they were either invaded or threatened by invasion from the USSR. The Italians on the other hand had collapsed due to invasion of their country in '43 which is out of the purview of this game.

BTW to rehash one of my above posts (SORRY!) - re Hiwis. These originated mostly through recruiting prisoners, not direct mobilization of the conquered populace. So is it feasable to, say have a percentage of russian prisoners being embodied in the Wehrmacht? (which is what I meant above by having a few infantry, artillery, cavalry replacements and a lot more support replacements being made available over time)

tnx!

[ComradeP]

Trying to include every possible course of the war would be very tricky for the programmers. I'm wondering how foreign volunteers in the Waffen SS are handled, such as what happens if France and the Low Countries are liberated using the historical timeframe (I seem to recall it was said earlier that the other war fronts will follow the historical timeline) or if most of Europe would be liberated by the Allies. I'm guessing there's a standardized formula for recruits from Axis held territory, as it would take a lot of code to add every variant.

As Italian units seem to "check" for surrender at the time of their historical surrender, I'm guessing failed checks mean stiff resistance at the Italian front/possibly a strong fascist government in (northern) Italy.

The sheer amount of variables on basically everything related to this conflict is staggering. It would be very interesting to experience how a "Axis clearly winning" session plays compared to a "Axis clearly losing" session.

[vinnie71]

Agreed. But the Italian surrender is (in my opinion) unavoidable, while the other satellite nations would have remained in the alliance, by hook or by crook.

BTW 2 questions re: minor allies - sorry I'm the inquistive type [:'(]

Could units originating in minor allied countries actually be rebuilt if destroyed? Historically it happened with both the Rumanians and Hungarians to some extent after Stalingrad.

Will the Bulgarians be involved as well? Historically they never declared war on the USSR and never sent contingents to the Eastern front, if I'm not mistaken.

[PyleDriver]

As is now, Rumanian and Hungarian units can't be rebuilt. Iv'e pressed that some should, if the pool is greater than units to put them in...
There is no Bulgarian units in the game...

[AZKGungHo]

Why no Bulgarians?  They fought so they ought to be represented right?

[elmo3]

ORIGINAL: AZ Gung Ho

Why no Bulgarians?  They fought so they ought to be represented right?

If you have any reliable sources that detail Bulgarian troops fighting in Russia please share them with us.

[paullus99]

I believe the Bulgarians were in Yugoslavia (maybe?) & they did declare war on the Allies, but not Russia, right?

[vinnie71]

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

As is now, Rumanian and Hungarian units can't be rebuilt. Iv'e pressed that some should, if the pool is greater than units to put them in...
There is no Bulgarian units in the game...

Thanks - it would actually make sense since the Rumanians especially seemed able to somehow rebuild partially their armies after the mauling they suffered at Stalingrad. Hungary had a bigger problem with replacing losses, but it still managed to collect 3 armies in '44/'45 for the final defence of its territory. Both tried to keep elite units (like the Rumanian cavalry divisions) up to strength although they did allow infantry divisions to be reduced in strength.

Sorry for bringing up the Bulgarians. They didn't participate in the East war at all - Bulgaria didn't even declare war on the USSR for the two countries have had an excellent relationship ever since Russia freed Bulgaria from the Ottoman Empire. They did take bits and pieces of territory (Macedonia and Thrace if I'm not wrong) and just garrisoned them. They did little fighting. They joined both sides under duress as far as I know so their exclusion from the game is natural.

[Veldmaarschalk]

ORIGINAL: paullus99

I believe the Bulgarians were in Yugoslavia (maybe?) & they did declare war on the Allies, but not Russia, right?

Correct, Bulgarians fought in Yugoslavia and Greece. And later switched sides to fight against the Germans.

[SergejK]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I know, but still...

The croats shouldn't be included as separate nation because they were included as part of german army - foreign volonteers in Wehrmacht. Also The Independent State of Croatia never did declare war on USSR as it did on
USA...

[vinnie71]

The only reason to include indipendent Croat formations is if the war in Yugoslavia is enacted, which it isn't. The 369 was attached to the 100 Jaeger Division for the Stalingrad campaign and they were destroyed there if I'm not mistaken. But as Rommel 1942 pointed out, it was a Wehrmacht formation.

[jaw]

ORIGINAL: Offworlder

The only reason to include indipendent Croat formations is if the war in Yugoslavia is enacted, which it isn't. The 369 was attached to the 100 Jaeger Division for the Stalingrad campaign and they were destroyed there if I'm not mistaken. But as Rommel 1942 pointed out, it was a Wehrmacht formation.

The 369th, like the 250th "Spanish Blue" division, is a regular German unit in WitE.

[molchomor]

Ah, so it was Spanish. Always wondered what that "Blau" division was in WiR/SF [8|]

[vinnie71]

Will the Spanish Blue division TO&E change over time? (as in real life when the bulk returned home)

[Montbrun]

A hard core Fascist contingent remained in Russia - the Blue Legion.

[vinnie71]

My point exactly. If I remember well, it started off as an oversize division but was reduced to a reinforced regiment of Phalangists...

[jaw]

ORIGINAL: Offworlder

Will the Spanish Blue division TO&E change over time? (as in real life when the bulk returned home)

The 250th withdraws from the Eastern Front in October, 1943.