NORAD tracks Santa....

[JudgeDredd]

Zap

I hope the day never comes (and I truly do) when you have such a serious injury or illness that your healthcare runs out...because when that happens, you'll be on the same playing field as the many hundreds of thousands (millions? I don't know) of other people that don't have healthcare because their wallet wasn't fat enough...then you may feel how the little people feel...abandoned

God forbid the day when it comes when an ambulance leaves me at the side of the road because I don't have my credit card on me!

Apparently good will to all men (as long as you can afford it)?? Is that the caveat?

Oooops...I did say I'd leave didn't I?......sorry...again...shame on me [:-] I will leave now...I pwomise

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

It works, 99% of the time, absolutely fine in Britain. It's not perfect...nothing is. I don't know what you are told over there, but if it's anything like "It'll never work" then they're lying. It can and does work and there are several countries with the proof...my country is one of them.

I'm sorry for this being off topic. But living in a country where healthcare is not dished out on your ability to pay and having that blessing slagged off cannot go unanswered!

Do the citizens that refuse it, like the ones that are healthy and use alternative ways, do they get fined?

Have you actually had to use it personally? For something serious, and if so did you have to wait?

It's really weird to see you post this as we here in the states have heard over and over that health care in Britain stinks! That we don't ever want to model your system. That you come over here for operations because of not being granted certain medical procedures. I'm confused... [&:]

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

ORIGINAL: LarryP

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Probably about 7 years old... I was awake and faking it as they were filling my stocking (always hung on my bed) and as they took the presents downstairs.

So your parents got a bit careless. Mine never did. My sister told me and I remember I was instantly mad at the lies. Every time I hear a politician speak on the benefits of national health care, I remember the Christmas lies of eight years old. [;)] [:D]

We never did talk about it. One year the charade just ended and all of the presents were brought down to the tree after we got up. Typical of my family relationship, they were very close mouthed about their affairs. I grew up in ignorance of so many things going on there. In return, I never told them about any of my problems, never complained, never disobeyed, and they died thinking they were the perfect parents. Oh well, that's life. I didn't make that mistake with my children... we talked about everything and nothing was held back.

Two kinds of parents. One teaches their children like they were taught, unknowingly ignorant. Then the opposite that teaches from their childhood experiences and improves upon it. Fortunately for your children, you are the latter. I've tried hard to to the same. My parents thought every time I did something wrong, grab the razor strap. I started training my son the same way and immediately saw how stupid that was and changed. He is now 31 and we have the best relationship I could ask for, and talk about anything and everything.

Santa, health care, and social behavior. Erik should be here soon... [8|]

[leastonh1]

ORIGINAL: LarryP
Do the citizens that refuse it, like the ones that are healthy and use alternative ways, do they get fined?

Seriously? Fines for refusing to use it?! [X(] I'm not sure where this idea of fines comes from, but the answer is: absolutely not. Everyone is free to use the health care system, or not, as they choose. We do live in a democracy here you know!! [:)]

ORIGINAL: LarryP
Have you actually had to use it personally? For something serious, and if so did you have to wait?

I have used it personally for both minor issues and imminent, life threatening illness. For minor things, there is a maximum of 18wks wait for surgical treatment and maximum of 4hrs wait for anyone presenting at the Accident and Emergency dep't. To see your local doctor often involves visiting the surgery during opening hours. For anything urgent, there is no waiting times.

ORIGINAL: LarryP
It's really weird to see you post this as we here in the states have heard over and over that health care in Britain stinks! That we don't ever want to model your system. That you come over here for operations because of not being granted certain medical procedures. I'm confused... [&:]

All I can say is, you've heard wrong. It doesn't stink by any means. The managers and idiots who control it do though. There's no such thing as a perfect system and the UK NHS isn't one. But, it does work well for the service users. There are always exceptions though. FWIW, we hear similar things about your system. How you won't get treatment unless you have insurance. Like you, we wouldn't ever choose to model your system. Go figure.

I suspect there are elements of truth and lies in both viewpoints.

[06 Maestro]

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn


Definitely off the rails. [:D]

I wrote a long response, but deleted it. I'm tired of the whole health care debate and all the lies and misinformation getting thrown around. So there is no sense getting into it here. Personally, due to high deductibles and co-pays on my school health insurance, I am shunning all medical care and am relying on diet and exercise to keep me going rather than expensive drugs and diagnostic tests that I can't afford.

Apparently you think that socialism has done the American Indians justice-seems to have worked fairly well in the inner cities to some peoples understanding. I don't think so. I too am tired of the lies and gross exaggerations.
I doubt there are many that are opposed to a stop gap insurance system. The problem is that is clearly not the current goal. Don't worry, it looks like you will get exactly what you want-it will just take about 5 years or so. I doubt you will be laughing then, but there will no going back.

[leastonh1]

So much for the fun Santa thread eh?! That'll teach me [8|]

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

So much for the fun Santa thread eh?! That'll teach me [8|]

I should never have referred to national health care. Thanks for your information Jim. The reason I asked about penalties is because this new plan we have going on now will penalize anyone that does not have health care. I downloaded the health care bill two weeks ago and there were over 250 "penalty" words used. The bill is also massively packed with pork, or earmarks which have nothing to do with the actual bill but were perks thrown in to sway a number of senators to vote in favor of it.

We are also going to get heavily taxed for most if not all medical devices such as artificial limbs, wheelchairs, pacemakers, crutches, etc.. They have to pay for this fiasco somehow and as government always does, TAXES and PENALTIES.

It sounds like where you live, it's a much better plan. Here we will NOT have a choice like you apparently do which is the most annoying part. It will become law, and if you break it you will be fined and jailed.

[06 Maestro]

ORIGINAL: LarryP

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

So much for the fun Santa thread eh?! That'll teach me [8|]

I should never have referred to national health care.

Well, at least you're man enough to admit you blew it. It's all your fault-[:D]

Hey Jim, don't give up the hope. Most of us like to keep track of Santa-that is, the one on the North Pole.[;)]

[leastonh1]

The irony is that in the UK now there's a shift towards financial management and targets rather than improving services. This is driven by government, and local managers spend more time bean counting than actually managing service delivery. There's never enough money for anything and yet the services continue to treat people, successfully for the most part. I can see that at some point, we'll end up with a two tier system. Those who can pay and elect for "better", "faster" services and those who by design or circumstance must use the state run and funded system. None of the governments we've had in recent years have had the courage to make anything other than small changes in NHS policy and often screw it up when they try. It's a very political hot potato and the majority of the UK population would happily burn at the stake any government who suggested scrapping the current system. It's a vicious circle.

[leastonh1]

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro
Well, at least you're man enough to admit you blew it. It's all your fault-[:D]

Hey Jim, don't give up the hope. Most of us like to keep track of Santa-that is, the one on the North Pole.[;)]

Lol! [:D]

I think this is one of those subjects which should be with religion and politics - banned in polite company. I suspect it's so emotive because it affects us all personally.

[06 Maestro]

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

The irony is that in the UK now there's a shift towards financial management and targets rather than improving services. This is driven by government, and local managers spend more time bean counting than actually managing service delivery. There's never enough money for anything and yet the services continue to treat people, successfully for the most part. I can see that at some point, we'll end up with a two tier system. Those who can pay and elect for "better", "faster" services and those who by design or circumstance must use the state run and funded system. None of the governments we've had in recent years have had the courage to make anything other than small changes in NHS policy and often screw it up when they try. It's a very political hot potato and the majority of the UK population would happily burn at the stake any government who suggested scrapping the current system. It's a vicious circle.

I have also read somewhere that the health care system workers/union is the largest employer in the UK; to buck that organization would be political suicide. The same will eventually be the case here. I would imagine that the US system will eventually be the largest employer in the world outside of the Chinese military.

The bill that just passed is unworkable for private insurance-they will fail, and those that passed it know it. This was just a first step. Hello socialism.
However, there are at least 7 States that have already initiated legal action (or are looking into) to block this law from those States. It ain't over till its over.

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro
Well, at least you're man enough to admit you blew it. It's all your fault-[:D]

Hey Jim, don't give up the hope. Most of us like to keep track of Santa-that is, the one on the North Pole.[;)]

Lol! [:D]

I think this is one of those subjects which should be with religion and politics - banned in polite company. I suspect it's so emotive because it affects us all personally.

It's political here and that should get this thread stopped for sure.

However it was very interesting to see your view on it there in Britain. You cleared some things up for me at least. Thanks Jim. [&o]

[leastonh1]

Maestro - Yes, you've heard correctly. The NHS is the largest employer in the UK and it has a fond place in the heart of the population. Political suicide is an understatement. Instead, they whittle away at it a small piece at time. People either don't notice or don't want to. Either way, it's heading in the wrong direction for a sustained future and is heartbreaking to watch. If only it were managed more effectively....!

LarryP - Hehe, I'm surprised this thread is still here and that it's remained so polite [:)]

The thing is, my explanation is only my take on the way things are. I'm seeing it from an end user perspective and from the inside as an employee. I honestly don't like what I see from either side of that coin. Again, my very limited knowledge of the way things work in the US means I don't envy you either. That's probably just my ignorance as much as anything else. But, it's sort of ingrained in a lot of Brits that all healthcare should be free at the point of delivery, for everyone. We have had it for so long now that we can't imagine any other way being better [:)]

[Zap]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Zap

I hope the day never comes (and I truly do) when you have such a serious injury or illness that your healthcare runs out...because when that happens, you'll be on the same playing field as the many hundreds of thousands (millions? I don't know) of other people that don't have healthcare because their wallet wasn't fat enough...then you may feel how the little people feel...abandoned

God forbid the day when it comes when an ambulance leaves me at the side of the road because I don't have my credit card on me!

Apparently good will to all men (as long as you can afford it)?? Is that the caveat?

Oooops...I did say I'd leave didn't I?......sorry...again...shame on me [:-] I will leave now...I pwomise

I know Judge, its hard to stay silent on this one. I promise I will conclude to respect matrix rules.

Judge maybe you don't understand this but here we already have emergency help and no one is denied care (not even the poorest of the poor). Which is why its suspect that a national care program is being proposed. Except for the fact that we have a socialist president who wants to imbed more socialism here.

[Greybriar]

ORIGINAL: Zap

....I know Judge, its hard to stay silent on this one. I promise I will conclude to respect matrix rules.

Judge maybe you don't understand this but here we already have emergency help and no one is denied care (not even the poorest of the poor). Which is why its suspect that a national care program is being proposed. Except for the fact that we have a socialist president who wants to imbed more socialism here.

I don't know which is the bigger lie.

Drop it. NOW!

[JWW]

Actually, regardless of the merits of health care reform in the US, no one is denied care in the US.  That's a fact.   

For the record, I support single payer health care reform for the US, i.e., some form of nationalized health care.  And I'm generally a conservative.    

[Greybriar]

ORIGINAL: JW

Actually, regardless of the merits of health care reform in the US, no one is denied care in the US.  That's a fact.   

For the record, I support single payer health care reform for the US, i.e., some form of nationalized health care.  And I'm generally a conservative.    

Quit distorting the truth.

And once again I say: Drop it. NOW!

[JWW]

Don't tell me I'm lying and then tell me to drop it. That absolutely guarantees a response. And I stand by what I said. If you are arguing that those who cannot afford to pay for insurance or medical care receive a lower quality of care, I agree. But medical care is available for anyone who needs it.

ORIGINAL: Greybriar

ORIGINAL: JW

Actually, regardless of the merits of health care reform in the US, no one is denied care in the US.  That's a fact.   

For the record, I support single payer health care reform for the US, i.e., some form of nationalized health care.  And I'm generally a conservative.    

Quit distorting the truth.

And once again I say: Drop it. NOW!

[Doggie]

ORIGINAL: Greybriar




Quit distorting the truth.

And once again I say: Drop it. NOW!

Who died and made you Arbiter of Truth?

The typical liberal attitude is telling.[8|]

[06 Maestro]

The real problem with the American health care "system" is that its costs have accelerated far above the average inflation rate. It is becoming too expensive-oddly enough, too expensive for doctors to stay in business too.

It is ironic that the primary reason for this bad situation is health care that is given for "free" to a few groups of people who have not earned it. As there is no such thing as a "free lunch", someone is paying for these services. It is all the regular folks that have to pay higher premiums and the doctors that have to deal with group plans with agreed payments that are too low that are paying the price.

There is an unfortunate group of lower middle class that should have/need insurance but cannot afford it. Some kind of plan should be devised to help those folks. However, the 10 million or so that are in that situation does not warrant giving 15% of the US economy to the very buffoons that caused the problem in the first place. The figure of 47 million that was repeatly tossed around is an outright lie. That includes various groups that do not have insurance including those that do not need it and illegals. Fortunately, it appears that the vast majority of illegals don't know they are currently entitled. Those that do create a big enough problem as it is.

While it is true that some people here cannot get some medical care or medication that they may need, no one is denied emergency treatment anywhere. There are also county hospitals in all parts of the country that treat people w/o insurance. If you are in America, just go down to any hospital and you can read the signs yourself-in various languages.

Personally, I would much rather contend with a private insurance company which I can fire at will (almost) than some tin pot Caesar with an attitude which I have no control over.

NOW DROP IT! [:D][:D]Just kidding-that is somebody else's job to make that determination.