Best early war Japanese ASW ship?

[moose1999]

Trying to make my mind up as to the best ships to use as sub hunters as the Japanese.
My experiences so far (I'm in the middle of January 42) is that it's actually the subchasers who perform best.
None of the DDs I have on ASW duty have impressed my very much.
PBs are mostly ineffective I find.
Es look good on paper, but I use them mostly for high-speed escorts so haven't really got to see them in ASW action yet.

So, which ships are you other Japanese players out there using for early ASW duties?

[String]

ORIGINAL: briny_norman

Trying to make my mind up as to the best ships to use as sub hunters as the Japanese.
My experiences so far (I'm in the middle of January 42) is that it's actually the subchasers who perform best.
None of the DDs I have on ASW duty have impressed my very much.
PBs are mostly ineffective I find.
Es look good on paper, but I use them mostly for high-speed escorts so haven't really got to see them in ASW action yet.

So, which ships are you other Japanese players out there using for early ASW duties?

Not sure, but the Minekazes, after converted to APD's, should perform quite well. Oodles of DC's + good experience.

[moose1999]

Thanks for the suggestion!
I looked the Minekaze up in Tracker.
Why would you convert them to APDs?
Looks like the DD variant has as many DPs and better speed and maneuvre.
The APD gets radar in 42/8 - which is the earliest for any ASW vessel it seems.
But what would the benefit be in converting to APD before this date?

[String]

ORIGINAL: briny_norman

Thanks for the suggestion!
I looked the Minekaze up in Tracker.
Why would you convert them to APDs?
Looks like the DD variant has as many DPs and better speed and maneuvre.
The APD gets radar in 42/8 - which is the earliest for any ASW vessel it seems.
But what would the benefit be in converting to APD before this date?

None I guess, I don't have the manuals nor the game available at this PC so I just suggested it from the top of my head.

[moose1999]

Ok, no problem.
But thanks for pointing me towards the Minekaze - when it gets radar it should be a real force to reckon with.

[Mynok]

I'm not sure radar is much use in ASW. The key component is lots of DCs and an experienced crew.

[moose1999]

Radar not that important you say...?
Well, off to rethink my ASW strategy once again... [:)]

[Mynok]

I would get a final word from the devs on that, but sonar would be far more important seems to me. Surfaced subs would have a pretty small radar signature. Now on planes it might be more useful. I know that the Nell gets a radar set later in its upgrade path.

[findmeifyoucan]

Lots of asw air search works for me and SC's of cours as they each have 6 asw values. Also those few DD's with 4 asw pt values work pretty good as well. I agree PB's don't seem to work to well unless you havelots of them

[moose1999]

I don't see any sonar devices in the device list or on any upcoming ships (upgrades and building).
How can I find out which ships get sonar?

[String]

ORIGINAL: briny_norman

I don't see any sonar devices in the device list or on any upcoming ships (upgrades and building).
How can I find out which ships get sonar?

There isn't any specific device for sonar afaik. It's just assumed that all ships with DC's have them.

[Miller]

Nothing worthwhile until Jan 43, when a lot of old DDs DMS and APDs can upgrade to Escorts.

[Q-Ball]

The Minekaze APD upgrade is a good idea anyway IMO, you don't lose any real combat ability, and APDs are more useful than the base DD. Same for the Kamikazes.

I don't think anything though is going to do much until you get the Type 2 DC. In WITP, that was certainly the case, not sure about AE. In WITP, the C/D class PCs with the 12xType 2 DC racks were hell on Allied subs.

[Ametysth]

I use Kiso/SC combo teams. Kiso class has ASW rating of 3, that is one dual and one single ash-can launcher and it has endurance of 4000, which allows it to refuel the SC's on patrols zones. Problem with Kiso class PB is, that it starts with experience under 20 as it is a converted ocean trawler in all practical purposes. It has to be left to patrol zone for week or a month to collect experience. SC's come in multiple forms, but I think it is the fast ones are the ones that really do some damage, so 19 kts SC and three Kiso's is my standard ASW patrol.

Working together they are pretty effective in sending subs either bottom or back to base for repairs.

[stuman]

I have found that at least in '42 the PBs, even solo, will have some deterrent effect. So I have a sort of a complicated system of some PBs doing long solo patrols in all key areas, followed up by 2-3 ( very few 4 ) ship ASW patrols in the most important araes. I have done my best to time these patrols to in such a manner as to have as much overlapping coverage as possible. Some single patrols, some hunter killer groups, Air based coverage on all the choke points, etc. And boy do I dread when the American torps become better.

[FatR]

ORIGINAL: Mynok


I would get a final word from the devs on that, but sonar would be far more important seems to me. Surfaced subs would have a pretty small radar signature. Now on planes it might be more useful. I know that the Nell gets a radar set later in its upgrade path.

Kate eventually gets both a radar and a magnetic anomaly detector (I assume that devices do not actually appear on planes, before their date of availability, otherwise it is too good to be true). Too bad that its radius is sort of lacking for a patrol plane. G3M3 has the best radius among Japanese land-based bombers and a radar, so it is worth producing even later in the war. Ki-49-Ia gets a magnetic anomaly detector, it has a passable radius and a good payload, so, theoretically, it is the best IJA patrol plane. Unfortunately, unless you want to pay for repairing one of your factories, it can only be produced within a limited time frame. Late-war Lorna sucks, mostly due to its very limited radius, so I don't know why anyone might want to research it.

As Japanese get all these devices only starting from second half of 1944, I presume that at the war's beginning only radius and payload matter for patrol planes.

[Ametysth]

Of course ultimate ASW weapon is KB. Send it in Manila in Dec 7th and about half of your worries disappear.

[Riva Ridge]

Wouldn't advise not doing the Pearl strike unless you want to see PH airgroups and BBs ranging in the South Pacific in Jan 1942. The three allied CVs along with the undamaged PH BBs and CAs would be too potent to have unchecked. You would end up having to commit the KB to the CENPAC area until it was neutralized. Doing so would mean taking losses out of the KB as well. Not worth it. The allied sub threat can be mitgated early on with escorts.

[Schatten]

there is not much to fear from those slow and obsolete BB´s in PH 1942...if they come out they will be sunk in no time...same for the 3 Carriers 1942...especially if you think about the small TF´s that AI form´s.

So Strike the Sub´s in Manila is the best open move atm and best ASW too.

Other Question, for Allies-Side..i see the Y´s and SC´s as nearly useless against Sub´s...especially the first one, in ASW Patrol´s...i have now early 1943 and i use them since over a Year now in ASW Units at US Coast...they have detected much Sub´s but not 1 attack!

Everytime its the same...Sub Detect-Sub diving deep/not diving deep-Escorts abort search.

It looks like a bug since it was everytime the same....and the SC´s not much better....they search but fail most times to find a Sub, where DD´s and AM´s with lower ASW Attack value find the Sub´s in no time....strange, strange.

[String]

ORIGINAL: Schatten

there is not much to fear from those slow and obsolete BB´s in PH 1942...if they come out they will be sunk in no time...same for the 3 Carriers 1942...especially if you think about the small TF´s that AI form´s.

So Strike the Sub´s in Manila is the best open move atm and best ASW too.

Other Question, for Allies-Side..i see the Y´s and SC´s as nearly useless against Sub´s...especially the first one, in ASW Patrol´s...i have now early 1943 and i use them since over a Year now in ASW Units at US Coast...they have detected much Sub´s but not 1 attack!

Everytime its the same...Sub Detect-Sub diving deep/not diving deep-Escorts abort search.

It looks like a bug since it was everytime the same....and the SC´s not much better....they search but fail most times to find a Sub, where DD´s and AM´s with lower ASW Attack value find the Sub´s in no time....strange, strange.

ASW attack value is directly connected to the number of depth charges on board. It has nothing to do with ASW efficiency.

Your DD's have much better experience and much more agressive captains, hence they have more success.