Insane Steam Holiday Sale

[V22 Osprey]

I personally don't see what the whole big deal is about steam.I've never had problems with it.It doesn't restrict installs, you certainly don't have be online to play, it sits on your desktop and bothers no one, and I can connect with friends.It's also great for indie companies because it gives them more notice.For example, when AI War Fleet Command first came it out, it was on "Update News" that automaticly pops up after you exit a steam game.Imagine the millions of people that would have seen the game....and that game is just a one man show.Imagine what steam could do for Matrix.

[ckammp]

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

I personally don't see what the whole big deal is about steam.I've never had problems with it.It doesn't restrict installs, you certainly don't have be online to play, it sits on your desktop and bothers no one, and I can connect with friends.It's also great for indie companies because it gives them more notice.For example, when AI War Fleet Command first came it out, it was on "Update News" that automaticly pops up after you exit a steam game.Imagine the millions of people that would have seen the game....and that game is just a one man show.Imagine what steam could do for Matrix.

Steam could do NOTHING for Matrix.

Matrix is great as is - easy to order, easy to download, physical copies available, and GREAT customer service. Matrix is the model of how other companies should be doing business.

With a game from Matrix, I decide when and whether I wish to upgrade; sometimes, I prefer the 'old' version of a game. With Steam, upgrades are mandatory and involuntary - sometimes, you actually can't play the game you purchased because Steam is upgrading. Just one of the many reasons why I won't use Steam.

And Matrix Games does a great job of promoting designers. Wargames are not mass-market games; do you think if millions of people saw an ad for a game like WitP:AE, they would all buy it? (Sorry Matrix, but you know it's true![:D])

I just wish those 'millions of people' would stop using Steam.[:(]

[dogancan]

ORIGINAL: ckammp

With a game from Matrix, I decide when and whether I wish to upgrade; sometimes, I prefer the 'old' version of a game. With Steam, upgrades are mandatory and involuntary - sometimes, you actually can't play the game you purchased because Steam is upgrading. Just one of the many reasons why I won't use Steam.

as far as i know, automatic upgrades are optional and you can deactivate them by simply right-clicking on a game from your game list.

I can understand those who wants physical copies or installer files to make a collection of their purchased games. But some (most?) reasons to stay away from steam are false rumours...

[ckammp]

ORIGINAL: dogancan

ORIGINAL: ckammp

With a game from Matrix, I decide when and whether I wish to upgrade; sometimes, I prefer the 'old' version of a game. With Steam, upgrades are mandatory and involuntary - sometimes, you actually can't play the game you purchased because Steam is upgrading. Just one of the many reasons why I won't use Steam.

as far as i know, automatic upgrades are optional and you can deactivate them by simply right-clicking on a game from your game list.

I can understand those who wants physical copies or installer files to make a collection of their purchased games. But some (most?) reasons to stay away from steam are false rumours...

I don't want a physical copy for a collection, I want a physical copy as a back-up that I can install when I want to or need to. Having a physical copy (along with an actual manual, not pdf) also gives me the feeling of owning the game. And yes, I would be willing to pay more to get a physical copy.

If I purchase a game, decide I don't really want it, I can always sell the physical copy. What do you do with a game that is just a registered download from Steam?

No, thank you. I'll stick to using sources like Matrix Games, and ignore Steam. I just wish more people felt the same way.

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

The Steam software had gathered a full list of the mp3 files stored on his computer, and relayed this info to Steam, obviously.

I'm not sure whether that guy posted his findings anywhere, I can't remember any big fuss around Steam regarding spying on users, at least, and I don't know whether they're still doing it or not. Whatsoever, I don't like that approach, so I avoid Steam.

There were lots of bad rumours about steam during its release ...

Thing is, with the detail I posted, it's not just a rumour. Steam used to spy on users. I don't even care if they still do it or not. You might remember when Sony came up with an audio CD that incorporated a copy protection AND spyware. The copy protection already pissed off people more than enough (CD would not work on older CD players), but - to top that - they had implemented a spyware module that could relay user information if played on a PC. Sony removed the copy protection (at least in those countries, where laws allowed for returning the CDs, if they wouldn't play on a given CD player), AND they did not proceed equipping their CDs with spyware.

I can't remember whether the spyware module was actually active or whether it was just an inactive part of the copy-protection package, it doesn't matter tho. The fact that it landed on the CD (for whatever reason) counts.

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

I personally don't see what the whole big deal is about steam.I've never had problems with it.It doesn't restrict installs, you certainly don't have be online to play, it sits on your desktop and bothers no one, and I can connect with friends.

The "big" deal is where Steam, or any other activation/authentification software, spies on you. If you don't have a problem with that, fair enough, to each their own. I don't accept such a policy, and that's why I stay away from Steam, but Starforce protected games, too, especially since their drivers dig themselfs deep into your system.

When Starforce was introduced, for example, game developers/publishers weren't able to either program or obtain a proper uninstall routine from SF to remove and disable the services from/on your computer when you decided to uninstall the game. Publishers like Codemasters, CDV and UbiSoft got quite some bashing from the communities, because the Starforce company didn't care about providing proper removal tools for a long time. There was even an incident where CDV referred to a Codemasters thread, when customers asked for a removal tool, the Starforce guys were that uncooperative ... even a customer like CDV couldn't push the release, nor were they able to offer a customized version.
When I wanted to get rid of the SF drivers completely, after uninstalling CDV's "Panzers - Phase one", I actually had to use the tool offered on Codemasters' website to completely remove that nasty SF.

Anyway, with these "new" industry habits, you rely on the publisher or company running a given service, means you have to trust them that they don't mess with your personal data, that they don't use intrusive modules and that they use proper uninstall routines if you decide to uninstall a game.

As the first Steam versions actually relayed user data (ie. titles and number of mp3 files, but a Valve programmer can surely modify Steam so that it gathers other/more data, anytime), it's not about rumours but about facts. I talked to the IT guy, and he could prove and analyze the extra traffic created by Steam.
I'm not gonna support such proceedings, especially since you don't know what other infos Steam might collect, or whether it's possible that someone could hack or misuse their servers or infos. The Steam servers had been hacked several times, which forced Valve to enhance their server software several times.

Another example would be the hacker who got access to a PC within the team-network running the Everquest servers. He retrieved several hundred thousand credit card numbers and full name/address infos just by getting access to this one computer which shouldn't have been connected to the internet in the first place.

I'm not uber-suspicious, but such details make me avoid some services. Sure, humans make mistakes and there is no 100% secure service/server, but if the service you're supposed to trust even collects data about you (without telling you, so actually spying on you), maybe to save money, or to avoid community uproars, then you know that something is wrong.

In turn, Google transformed to a massive hydra project, they gather all kinda data. Until now, they had used the myriad of infos to improve their own services, and there's no criminal energy or uber-greedy attitude involved, for sure. But I wonder when public oppinion will change, and when Google will become the next big Microsoft (means that many people hate the company). If there's only one tiny incident where people think their data are being misused, Google will be done, and their sophisticated search routines and ad processing won't save them, as their business model is based on millions of users actually using their free services, and .... trusting them. Another company would fill a possibly upcoming gap. So far, people consider Google to be a "good" company. But it might change. [:D]

With Steam having a 70% market share, it's rather about having the biggest portfolio of games (= quasi a monopoly), than about acting openly and honestly.

[V22 Osprey]

ORIGINAL: ckammp

ORIGINAL: dogancan

ORIGINAL: ckammp

With a game from Matrix, I decide when and whether I wish to upgrade; sometimes, I prefer the 'old' version of a game. With Steam, upgrades are mandatory and involuntary - sometimes, you actually can't play the game you purchased because Steam is upgrading. Just one of the many reasons why I won't use Steam.

as far as i know, automatic upgrades are optional and you can deactivate them by simply right-clicking on a game from your game list.

I can understand those who wants physical copies or installer files to make a collection of their purchased games. But some (most?) reasons to stay away from steam are false rumours...

I don't want a physical copy for a collection, I want a physical copy as a back-up that I can install when I want to or need to. Having a physical copy (along with an actual manual, not pdf) also gives me the feeling of owning the game. And yes, I would be willing to pay more to get a physical copy.

If I purchase a game, decide I don't really want it, I can always sell the physical copy. What do you do with a game that is just a registered download from Steam?

No, thank you. I'll stick to using sources like Matrix Games, and ignore Steam. I just wish more people felt the same way.

I agree with this.I like having the physical copy.I only use steam for valve games, and even those games I bought retail boxed copy.

However, I do like the fact that with steam if for example I ever lost my Orange Box CDs, all I have to do is install steam to a new computer, go to my games list and select "install game" and it will automatically download and install the games.Unlike when I lost Call of Duty 2 CD, or my Company of Heroes CD key I was stuck buying another copy of those games.

The problem is most of you have 1)never tried steam, or 2)Never gave it a chance.I presume most of you assumed it was just a another DRM, and when you saw it was a DRM it made you panicked and made sound worst than it actually is.

[htuna]

As others have pointed out don't have to do updates. that's an option you can turn off or on. You also don't have to be online (if it's not Multiplayer).. just have it in offline mode. I have multiple IDs.. for the MP games I want to play with my kids... We also can use the same ID if a certain game is on the list on one ID we both want to play (Just go into offline mode)..

I prefer not to have to put a CD/DVD every time I want to play... or search for CD's/DVDs everytime I due a new PC Build.. nor be concerned about whether or not I have a 'backup' of all the games I love.

Steam Rocks!.. End of story! [:D]

[Lützow]

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

I personally don't see what the whole big deal is about steam.I've never had problems with it.It doesn't restrict

1. You know how it does restrict you first time you're going see the message: "This version is not available in your country". Happened to me with 'King Arthur - the Roleplaying Game' demo and I had to look elsewhere in order to download it. I condemn any kind of censorship, regardless if it's about legal or content issues.

2. Steam disadavantages non American customers as this service charges same amount in Euro as in USD. What means, here in Europe we got to pay ~30% more for a game.

3. Once a title is bound to a steam account, one can't resale it anymore.

[V22 Osprey]

ORIGINAL: Lützow

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

I personally don't see what the whole big deal is about steam.I've never had problems with it.It doesn't restrict

1. You know how it does restrict you first time you're going see the message: "This version is not available in your country". Happened to me with 'King Arthur - the Roleplaying Game' demo and I had to look elsewhere in order to download it. I condemn any kind of censorship, regardless if it's about legal or content issues.

2. Steam disadavantages non American customers as this service charges same amount in Euro as in USD. What means, here in Europe we got to pay ~30% more for a game.

3. Once a title is bound to a steam account, one can't resale it anymore.

1) & 2) I understand this.So I don't blame you, and in fact it's sad that they do that to out of US customers.Seeing as I'm in American though, I have no problems with steam.What you say though is a valid point.

3) But that's with pretty much every game nowadays except Wargames.I can't resell, my non-Steam version of Company of Heroes, nor can I resell my non-Steam version of World in Conflict.So, ever since DRM and these dang CD keys tied to your online accounts you've been never to resell games anyway.

[Hartford688]

ORIGINAL: Lützow

2. Steam disadavantages non American customers as this service charges same amount in Euro as in USD. What means, here in Europe we got to pay ~30% more for a game.

Part of 2) (though not the full 30%) is due to VAT, however. Zero tax in U.S., ~20% in Europe?

[leastonh1]

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager
I sincerly hope that Matrix would look into using Steam as a retail channel. I would not want it to take over as the primary or only way of game distribution. But as an alternate secondary source of game distribution it would only serve to increase Matrix game sales.

If Matrix took that route, I'd never buy another game from them. Without a physical copy of the game and patches, I'm really not interested. Thankfully, I'm far from being alone in this regard.

[leastonh1]

ORIGINAL: cmurphy625
As others have pointed out don't have to do updates. that's an option you can turn off or on. You also don't have to be online (if it's not Multiplayer).. just have it in offline mode. I have multiple IDs.. for the MP games I want to play with my kids... We also can use the same ID if a certain game is on the list on one ID we both want to play (Just go into offline mode)..

But, why would you not want updates for a game?? To suggest not using them is barmy. I've never bought a game yet that didn't need at least a couple of patches. What I object to is being told when to download them and that I can't have my own copy of them for future installs [8|]

Ok, what about reinstalling games? To give you a typical example...I just reinstalled a boxed copy of a game I have on DVD, along with a number of mods and patches. The game came to around 6Gb (on the DVD I bought). The patches were over 500Mb (on a disc I burned after downloading them) and the mods were all chosen by me from a folder on my HDD, all of which I'd downloaded. Now, tell me please...how on earth having to download that lot after a reinstall or on a new pooter is advantageous?? Absolutely crazy, especially considering the caps most ISP's put on accounts these days. 6 or 7Gb download for one game is a big chunk out of a capped account's monthly allocation. Even with my unlimited account, I wouldn't want to have to do that. Can you imagine doing this several times for all your games after reinstalling Windows or on a new PC? No thank you. I put the discs in and click install. Simple and very quick. You can keep Steam.

ORIGINAL: cmurphy625
I prefer not to have to put a CD/DVD every time I want to play... or search for CD's/DVDs everytime I due a new PC Build.. nor be concerned about whether or not I have a 'backup' of all the games I love.

Steam Rocks!.. End of story! [:D]

Why do you have to put a disc in every time you play? Not all games need this and I'd much rather that than having to download them all and not having my own copies on disc.

Steam Sucks!.. End of story! [:D]

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

I know you guys don't like Steam,

Steam can suck my balls.

Whoring yourself out to them doesn't help my opinion of you. [:-]

If their games were free I still wouldn't join. Been there, done that, replaced Windows because of it. [:@][:@][:@]

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager
I sincerly hope that Matrix would look into using Steam as a retail channel. I would not want it to take over as the primary or only way of game distribution. But as an alternate secondary source of game distribution it would only serve to increase Matrix game sales.

If Matrix took that route, I'd never buy another game from them. Without a physical copy of the game and patches, I'm really not interested. Thankfully, I'm far from being alone in this regard.

I'm with you. [&o]

[ckammp]

ORIGINAL: LarryP

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager
I sincerly hope that Matrix would look into using Steam as a retail channel. I would not want it to take over as the primary or only way of game distribution. But as an alternate secondary source of game distribution it would only serve to increase Matrix game sales.

If Matrix took that route, I'd never buy another game from them. Without a physical copy of the game and patches, I'm really not interested. Thankfully, I'm far from being alone in this regard.

I'm with you. [&o]

+1

I love Matrix Games, but if they ever decide to do business with Steam, I'm out. I really doubt that Matrix would ever do something like that, though.

And if you do ,Matrix, please wait until WitE is released and patched![:D]

[SlickWilhelm]

I think this is a generational question. The folks in my generation(b. 1965) are used to having something physical from the store when they buy something...a CD, a DVD, etc. I'll probably still have my hundreds of classical music CD's sitting on my shelf til they pry them out of my cold, clammy hands.

My son's generation will probably easily assimilate into the "digital distribution" delivery method which will be, IMO, the norm in the future. Oh sure, there will be issues to be worked out(privacy, theft prevention), but in the end we'll all be getting our media in little packets until the next big technology arrives.

[leastonh1]

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm

I think this is a generational question. The folks in my generation(b. 1965) are used to having something physical from the store when they buy something...a CD, a DVD, etc. I'll probably still have my hundreds of classical music CD's sitting on my shelf til they pry them out of my cold, clammy hands.

My son's generation will probably easily assimilate into the "digital distribution" delivery method which will be, IMO, the norm in the future. Oh sure, there will be issues to be worked out(privacy, theft prevention), but in the end we'll all be getting our media in little packets until the next big technology arrives.

I'm sad to say, you're probably right there. I'm of the same generation as you (b. 1968), so can certainly relate to what you're saying. We are in the process of another technology shift and I'll buck the trend as long as I can, being an old fart and all [:)] It's like the transition from vinyl (oh, I wish we could go back to it), to tapes, to CD's & DVD's and now HD and whatever else they come up with to make that obsolete.

[V22 Osprey]

Your generation just hates new things.

I hate DRM and love Physical copies(I love a nice DVD case to put on the Shelf) but to be honest I see nothing wrong with Steam.I think you guys just can't accept the fact that Steam is a DRM that actually works.[:D]

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

Your generation just hates new things.

I hate DRM and love Physical copies (I love a nice DVD case to put on the Shelf) but to be honest I see nothing wrong with Steam.I think you guys just can't accept the fact that Steam is a DRM that actually works.[:D]

You're 16 and I'm 54. I hate DRM in any form. I love physical copies and I love digital copies as I have a pile of games with Impulse. Nothing makes me happier than buying something new. I love new things, especially electronic. The difference is Impulse does NOT take over my file system on drive C, or any other drive. They also have never given me a virus or two like Steam did two years ago. Also if I need help I can get it within the hour, versus never with Steam.

I also have 56 purchases (games and expansions) with Gamersgate and around 6 games with Direct2Drive, never a problem. I have nothing against digital copies or downloading without a physical copy of a game, just Steam I'm against. I had around 15 purchases with them.

Now we old fogies could say that your generation depends on new things. Expects new things. Worships new things. However, making a blanket statement like that would be pretty ignorant of me. You're an individual and so am I. [;)]

[leastonh1]

ORIGINAL: LarryP
You're 16 and I'm 54. I hate DRM in any form. I love physical copies and I love digital copies as I have a pile of games with Impulse. Nothing makes me happier than buying something new. I love new things, especially electronic. The difference is Impulse does NOT take over my file system on drive C, or any other drive. They also have never given me a virus or two like Steam did two years ago. Also if I need help I can get it within the hour, versus never with Steam.

I haven't used Impulse yet, but probably will at some point. I find the Matrix way of distributing products fantastic. A simple download with serial number and patches available as they are released and historically. And/Or a nice boxed copy of the game with a printed manual for only a few extra pounds. Perfect. No drm, no online connection, no hoops. I found gog.com great to use too - completely digital distribution, a great site design with the customer in mind first and foremost. I'm really a fan of digital distribution as long as I can still satisfy the same need as LarryP for having a physical copy as an option.

After posting earlier, I did a quick look at what's installed on my hard drive now and which games I have that can be bought via Steam. Let's suppose I had to reinstall my software on a new drive. Those games I could have bought from Steam alone would total around 20-25Gb in downloads! And that's without any patching. I'm only looking at maybe 6 titles in all, out of 30 or so I have installed currently. I have ALL of these on CD and DVD, along with all the patches seperately, which I wouldn't have with Steam versions. If you guys who buy more than me from Steam ever have to reinstall from scratch, I'd be interested to know if your opinion of this wonderful system changes. Somehow, seriously I doubt it will be for the better.