Insane Steam Holiday Sale

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

Here is a link to the site I use to decide which firewall I should be running. It's quite an eye opener when you see some of the big names failing the tests! - http://www.matousec.com/projects/proact ... esults.php

Hmm, Comodo is on top of the list... Maybe I should check it out.

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

Here is a link to the site I use to decide which firewall I should be running. It's quite an eye opener when you see some of the big names failing the tests! - http://www.matousec.com/projects/proact ... esults.php

Hmm, Comodo is on top of the list... Maybe I should check it out.

It would be interesting to see what you think of it, compared to Tiny. [&:]

It's easy to disable when playing a game which is a nice feature. Also one click to stop all traffic which I use a lot.

[Emobama]

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

If Matrix took that route, I'd never buy another game from them. Without a physical copy of the game and patches, I'm really not interested. Thankfully, I'm far from being alone in this regard.

What do you mean a physical copy of the game? Then the tangent about physical copy of the patches. Do you have physical copies of the patches for the majority of your games now? What you download from Steam is at least as physical as any of your other media. Maybe even more resilient since you can make copies of ALL of your Steam games and them on a single, small storage device and move them to new storage media as it becomes available. You may be able to download it and all of the patches from Steam as well and use it not matter what the changes are in the market which may make the media you have purchased from the retailer obsolete. I think that is more useful than your copy of Lords Of Conquest on a 5 ¼” floppy.

[leastonh1]

ORIGINAL: Emobama
What do you mean a physical copy of the game? Then the tangent about physical copy of the patches. Do you have physical copies of the patches for the majority of your games now? What you download from Steam is at least as physical as any of your other media. Maybe even more resilient since you can make copies of ALL of your Steam games and them on a single, small storage device and move them to new storage media as it becomes available. You may be able to download it and all of the patches from Steam as well and use it not matter what the changes are in the market which may make the media you have purchased from the retailer obsolete. I think that is more useful than your copy of Lords Of Conquest on a 5 ¼” floppy.

By physical copy, I mean one that doesn't require Internet access to reinstall or repatch in the future. In other words, on a storage medium of my choosing. I did say in a previous post that I didn't know Steam allowed you to download and store copies of your games & patches and that I stood corrected. [:)] I do have copies of all my games on CD or DVD, yes.

It's been a long time since I saw or used a 5 1/4" floppy disk!

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: Emobama

You may be able to download it and all of the patches from Steam as well and use it not matter what the changes are in the market which may make the media you have purchased from the retailer obsolete. I think that is more useful than your copy of Lords Of Conquest on a 5 ¼” floppy.

Well, early storage media (floppy disks) used to be supported + widely used for like what ... say 17 years? (say 1978 - 1993/94), with a step from 5¼” to 3.5" in between, and a transition phase between the next big step to the CD-Rom, but where you could still buy games as floppy version or CD-Rom version from around 1993-1995.
The CD era "lasted" for at least 12 years (say 1994 to ~2006) until most games were pressed on DVD media, with smaller applications still being "pressed" on CD-Roms.

Digital stores usually grant a redownload period of 2-10 years, with some of them restricting the number of downloads to 10 (battefront.com, IIRC) for example.

With a digital download, there's a chance that you end up with NO game copy at all, in case you upgraded/lost your PC hardware or let's say data on your memory stick several times, especially if you didn't create any other physical backup, and if your download period ended (bigger DD portals featuring limited DL periods will boldly state that your DL period ended and won't reactivate your download) or if the number of allowed downloads had been reached.
Also, you don't know how long a given DD service will be available these days, unless it's the market leader (ie. Steam).

With a physical copy, and with today's downward compatibility (DVD -> CD-Rom) you'll have at least another 10 years (wild guess) or so until DVD drives won't be available anymore, so you'll have like what, +/- 20 years of "guaranteed" usability for optical storage media obtained in late 90s or around millennium?

Maybe it's just me, but physical copy then sounds a tick more reliable/durable to me, no? [:D] I can clearly see where ppl's resentments may come from.

Btw, I never get physical copies at Matrix, I go for the DD.

[Emobama]

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

By physical copy, I mean one that doesn't require Internet access to reinstall or repatch in the future. In other words, on a storage medium of my choosing. I did say in a previous post that I didn't know Steam allowed you to download and store copies of your games & patches and that I stood corrected. [:)] I do have copies of all my games on CD or DVD, yes.

It's been a long time since I saw or used a 5 1/4" floppy disk!

I purchased a few games from Steam during the sale and have not installed them yet. I did minimal research and may be wrong but I believe I will be able to download an installation package and keep it on whatever digital media device I prefer and be able to move it around as much as I want. So I could have it on an internal HDD and an external flash drive or two. I see this as a huge advantage. To me it is like being able to store all of my music on a single device and have it available to me practically everywhere.

[Emobama]

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

Well, early storage media (floppy disks) used to be supported + widely used for like what ... say 17 years? (say 1978 - 1993/94), with a step from 5¼” to 3.5" in between, and a transition phase between the next big step to the CD-Rom, but where you could still buy games as floppy version or CD-Rom version from around 1993-1995.
The CD era "lasted" for at least 12 years (say 1994 to ~2006) until most games were pressed on DVD media, with smaller applications still being "pressed" on CD-Roms.

Digital stores usually grant a redownload period of 2-10 years, with some of them restricting the number of downloads to 10 (battefront.com, IIRC) for example.

With a digital download, there's a chance that you end up with NO game copy at all, in case you upgraded/lost your PC hardware or let's say data on your memory stick several times, especially if you didn't create any other physical backup, and if your download period ended (bigger DD portals featuring limited DL periods will boldly state that your DL period ended and won't reactivate your download) or if the number of allowed downloads had been reached.
Also, you don't know how long a given DD service will be available these days, unless it's the market leader (ie. Steam).

With a physical copy, and with today's downward compatibility (DVD -> CD-Rom) you'll have at least another 10 years (wild guess) or so until DVD drives won't be available anymore, so you'll have like what, +/- 20 years of "guaranteed" usability for optical storage media obtained in late 90s or around millennium?

Maybe it's just me, but physical copy then sounds a tick more reliable/durable to me, no? [:D] I can clearly see where ppl's resentments may come from.

Btw, I never get physical copies at Matrix, I go for the DD.

To me the problem with any game produced today is not which digital media it is stored on but the evolving technology and standards. I have several games that do not install properly because of of driver issues and even if I do get them installed they run too fast to be playable. Operating systems, sound cards, video cards and even computers themselves may not be the same in 10 years. I believe Verizon is thinking you will be able to run everything from your cell phone. You just plug a keyboard, monitor and mouse into it and you use it as you would a PC today. That would probably mean a change in operating system but I can see a push for web based services where your actual operating system is not as important as your web interface and its compatibility.

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: Emobama

I purchased a few games from Steam during the sale and have not installed them yet. I did minimal research....

You're a first-time Steam user without any experience and you still jump on me for spreading "urban legends"?
Funny.
On a sidenote, Steam marketing states that every game is tied to a user account, and not to a particular PC. I'd say this may vary, tho, as some developers may insist on more restrictive DRM types or tie their game to the Steam software (and/or to an active internet connection via Steam).

[Emobama]

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

You're a first-time Steam user without any experience and you still jump on me for spreading "urban legends"?
Funny.
On a sidenote, Steam marketing states that every game is tied to a user account, and not to a particular PC. I'd say this may vary, tho, as some developers may insist on more restrictive DRM types or tie their game to the Steam software (and/or to an active internet connection via Steam).

Yes. Because what you provided was based on the invaluable "I know a guy who" model and stating it as if we knew it were a fact. I do not know if what you said is true. Not at all.

[GoodGuy]

Yes. Because what you provided was based on the invaluable "I know a guy who" model and stating it as if we knew it were a fact. I do not know if what you said is true. Not at all.

Funny again, as I could say that this in fact applies to your statement, as you emit quite a lot of praise for Steam, without really having any first-hand experience other than pushing the BUY and DOWNLOAD button.

This thread is packed with comedians. [8D]
Hm ok, 2 so far, let's not exaggerate. [;)]

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: Emobama

To me the problem with any game produced today is not which digital media it is stored on but the evolving technology and standards.

Yeah, i got that part. I was rather referring to the fact that some people find physical copies to be more "sexy".
Which reminds me of Science Fiction movies where people make love using silly headsets or similar things ("Demolition Man" ?), instead of going for the real deal. You might get the idea.

You just plug a keyboard, monitor and mouse into it and you use it as you would a PC today. That would probably mean a change in operating system but I can see a push for web based services where your actual operating system is not as important as your web interface and its compatibility.

Actually, I'm convinced you'll see this materializing in form of Android cell phones (like the Google phone, Motorola Milestone, etc.) rather sooner than later. If I am not mistaken, Verizon picked up the Google deal for the US, Vodaphone will be the German/British google partner, so you might see such a solution sooner than some ppl think, as Android is way more powerful/faster than any Windows mobile or Apple phone, imho. The Iphone market share may decline soon-ish. I got me a Milestone for xmas. Android rox.

[leastonh1]

ORIGINAL: Emobama
I purchased a few games from Steam during the sale and have not installed them yet. I did minimal research and may be wrong but I believe I will be able to download an installation package and keep it on whatever digital media device I prefer and be able to move it around as much as I want. So I could have it on an internal HDD and an external flash drive or two. I see this as a huge advantage. To me it is like being able to store all of my music on a single device and have it available to me practically everywhere.

Hang on...so, you spouted about definitely being able to download and store all your Steam purchases to me, when you were in fact....guessing - you "believe" you can do it? Without actually checking? Seriously? This thread is getting funnier by the minute. Priceless. I haven't laughed this much for a while. Thank you [&o] [:D]

Can someone who has done this confirm once and for all please? Once you buy from Steam, can you download and store your purchases, including patches? Can you reinstall them at any time without the need for Steam?

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

This thread is getting funnier by the minute. Priceless. I haven't laughed this much for a while. Thank you [&o] [:D]

Steam threads have always been this way. [8D] Steamy.

[Emobama]

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

Hang on...so, you spouted about definitely being able to download and store all your Steam purchases to me, when you were in fact....guessing - you "believe" you can do it? Without actually checking? Seriously? This thread is getting funnier by the minute. Priceless. I haven't laughed this much for a while. Thank you [&o] [:D]

Can someone who has done this confirm once and for all please? Once you buy from Steam, can you download and store your purchases, including patches? Can you reinstall them at any time without the need for Steam?

From my limited research, the kind of research I will put in for a sub $30 purchase which is cursory at best, I came to a decision.
I came away with the opinion that you can download the content and if you want install it on multiple machines and not have a CD in the drive. Now will it work this way? I have no idea. I do know that if I can make a backup copy that to me it is much more useful having 60 games on something the size of a pack of cigarettes than it is to have 60+ CD's laying around.

I took umbrage to the fact that you thought your physical copy of the the digital media was necessarily better than all other copies of the digital media. You think it is different but I do not see how.

From the people I queried prior to my purchase it seems to work and seems like a good idea. Even if flawed in the iteration I like the idea. It would be a blast to have all of my game media available to me on one device and then have as many backups of that data as I want.

I see no reason to think that a game on a removable HD is any less of a physical copy than one on a CD. I have no relation with Steam nor do I have a vested interest in their success or failure. If I like how it works I will be their client. If I do not I will not be their client. But I will try to base my decision on tangible and measurable differences and not on whimsical things like a game not coming on a red cd or that I want to touch my game. I am not sure why a person would want to touch their game but it seems to be a big deal to some. This is the internet age and digital media is digital media is digital media. I see no reason to believe it is any less digital or not media because I download it instead of going into a store and finding a thing in a shiny package with pretty pictures.

[leastonh1]

ORIGINAL: Emobama
I took umbrage to the fact that you thought your physical copy of the the digital media was necessarily better than all other copies of the digital media. You think it is different but I do not see how.

Emobama, you completely, and I mean totally, missed my whole point. I never said my copy was better than any other.....I'll spell it out once and for all....

1. If I buy software, I want a copy of it and any and all patches available to me to backup on any media I choose.
2. I want those files available to reinstall on any of my PC's at any time in the future of my choosing.
3. I will NOT buy from a company who doesn't let me do 1 and 2.
4. I will NOT buy from a company who uses prohibitive DRM.
5. I will NOT buy from a company who forces me to activate (even once) or connect to their servers every time I want to run MY software (e.g. Bioware's NWN addons).

That's it in a nutshell. So, all I wanted to put across was that as far as I knew (and I still don't know if it's right or not), you cannot download a game and patches you buy from Steam and back them up anywhere for later use, without having to re-download them all. It had nothing to do with who had the better media at all.

Here's another good example that I'm still irritated by: I reinstalled Down in Flames from Battlefront last night. Or tried to! The game won't run without a connection to their server and between the last time I ran it and this time, their servers had been redone. So, I ended up going on their forums in frustration because the game I bought wouldn't run because their server had disappeared! It turned out that I needed to edit a bloody config file in order to connect to their server to allow me to play a game OFFLINE! I can't even get access to the aircraft data and campaigns for the game unless I am connected to their server. It's a joke and absolutely typical of what I'm talking about here. It's also the reason I'll never buy from Battlefront again. That's not a Battlefront bash for the sake of it, it's a real annoyance on my part.

I hope that clears it up [;)]

[Emobama]

That makes much more sense than having to own a physical copy. I can't say anything about Steam activation process and I can see the annoyance. Unfortunately that may be the future of software. Microsoft and Adobe do it I believe and they will give you CD's and you will still have to validate or activate. Companies would love to move the who shebang to their centralized servers so they could have more control. I do not think that will fly because storage is so cheap but I know they would like it.

When I buy a product I take my needs into account first but I also like to consider the welfare of people and companies I do business with. If I like the company and product I may go through more than if I didn't. I would prefer not to do validations and activations but I understand their need to make money to feed their families, and from a selfish viewpoint to produce more things that I enjoy. I would much rather activate a product online with a company then download a free cracked version of the software from the internet where I have to trust there is no added code or spyware.

I will try Steam. For the $2.00 I paid for Zombie Driver game I can forego unlimited installs. I am not concerned about getting gypped out of that. [:D]

[Arctic Blast]

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

ORIGINAL: Emobama
I purchased a few games from Steam during the sale and have not installed them yet. I did minimal research and may be wrong but I believe I will be able to download an installation package and keep it on whatever digital media device I prefer and be able to move it around as much as I want. So I could have it on an internal HDD and an external flash drive or two. I see this as a huge advantage. To me it is like being able to store all of my music on a single device and have it available to me practically everywhere.

Hang on...so, you spouted about definitely being able to download and store all your Steam purchases to me, when you were in fact....guessing - you "believe" you can do it? Without actually checking? Seriously? This thread is getting funnier by the minute. Priceless. I haven't laughed this much for a while. Thank you [&o] [:D]

Can someone who has done this confirm once and for all please? Once you buy from Steam, can you download and store your purchases, including patches? Can you reinstall them at any time without the need for Steam?

Good grief...okay, let's bring some facts to this. [:D]

Once you have a game installed, you right click it on your games list and select Backup Game. You'll be given the option to backup any/all of the Steam games you have installed on your system. You can choose where to backup the files...another folder on your system, an external drive, or burned to a disc.

Down the road, if you go to re-install from your backups, you will still need to install Steam and log in to your account...the installers are not standalones. You can then restore a backup rather than downloading the games all over again.

As an alternative, any third party Steam titles (in other words, anything but Valve titles) can be backed up in a much simpler way. Find your Steam folder, and the 'steamapps' subfolder within. Copy the .ncf file for any games to another location, then go in to the 'common' subfolder and copy the entire folders for whatever games you've already copied the .ncf files for. To reinstall from this backup, all you have to do is reinstall Steam, then copy the .ncf files back to 'steamapps', and the corresponding game folders to the 'common' subfolder. Restart the Steam app and the games will be there.

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy
On a sidenote, Steam marketing states that every game is tied to a user account, and not to a particular PC. I'd say this may vary, tho, as some developers may insist on more restrictive DRM types or tie their game to the Steam software (and/or to an active internet connection via Steam).

Actually, even in cases where publishers are also using 3rd party DRM (SecuROM, etc.), you can still have your games installed via your Steam account on multiple computers. You can only play them on one PC at a time. Your saved games and keybinds, etc. will transfer between systems because they're saved on the Steam cloud.

[leastonh1]

Thanks Arctic Blast [:)]

[Arctic Blast]

You're welcome, Jim.

Oh, here's the Steam page about it for those wanting a bit more detail : https://support.steampowered.com/kb_art ... -YPHV-2033

[Greybriar]

What good does it do to back up Steam games if Steam is still required to run them and/or Steam no longer exists or is purchased by a company that changes the terms of use?

Sorry, but I've seen too many PC game companies disappear and all support for their games disappear with them.