AE has increased the importance of ports and naval support significantly, it could have done more but many people would have considered it unplayable. But AE hasn't been able to limit the movement of supplies overaland, in fact with the supply draw feature (which is needed for other reasons) it may be worse.
I took a look this morning - Tenant Creek has a maximum overland draw of 100 supply. So in theory that is the most that can move overland from Alice Springs toward Darwin. Is that still too much?
Source: The Never-Never Line, The Story of the North Australia Railway. The best book on the subject:)
Sorry to sideline the thread
War preperations begun in Darwin in early 1938 with war coming on to the horizon.
In 1939 the line moved 86% more tonnage than 1938, In Nov 1939 more tonnage was moved than in the entire depression year of 1931-32. This increase was largely Naval and Army stores.
In late 1940 the Army was allocated a lot of money to improve the road from Alice in preperation for war. A total of 300 miles was built at 5 miles a day with 500 men.
Between Sept and Nov 1941 additional engines and rollingstock from West Australia was shipped in to Darwin to help handle the extra tonnages.
In early 1941 the 23rd Brigade was moved from NSW/Victoria to Darwin by Rail, a first. As a consequence three troop trains were developed (and later an Ambulance train). Each train was 10 coachs long and could handle 190 tons (the limit a single loco could haul). One troop train per day was possible (leaving Birdum at 11.45 AM it arrived in Darwin at 0743 the next day).
Tactical exercises were done using the trains to rapidly transport units from Darwin down the line in case of invasion.
In early 1942 there were around 30 ships in Darwin Harbour. Unloading was hampered by a lack of manifest paperwork, and a lack of warf labour. Eventually 160 extra men were allowed in by the Darwin Warfies, darwin had stacks of suitable storage thanks to the Meatworks area.
Jan 1942 a US engineer (Lief Sverdrup, later a MAJGEN under McArthur as Chief Engineer) is sent on behalf of the US Army to duplicate the road and rail in order to support Darwin "it would take more bulldozers than in the whole of Australia". Discussions were held on upgrading to handle 2000 tons per day.
By mid 1942 the line was moving 3 times as much as it did in 1940-41 and 11 times more than 1938-1939.
The main army supply depot was at Katherine (outside of Betty range from Koepang/Ambon), the RAAF were at Mataranka (also outside bombing range), with depots in between for ammo etc. Adelaide river had a hospital and the HQ of NORFORCE.
In 1943 30% of supplies for Darwin came by sea, 70% by rail. Much of the stuff that came by sea (fuel, bituman for the airfields and naval stores) was shipped inland via rail to the depots.
In 1942 there were 8 trains a day each way. So that means around 1500 tons per day shipped north (that includes troops). More could be scheduled if required for a burst (but there was a limit on engines and rollingstock).
From Jul 1942 to Jun 1943 161,000 tons of freight (500 tons a day) were hauled, which was twice that of the previous 12 months.
From Jul 1943- Jun 1944 this was increased by about 50%. In early 1944 the line was moving 500 tons a supply a day north, and 220 south (i.e from ships at Darwin to depots at Katherine)
In late 1943 a seabourne invasion of Indonesia was planned for 1944, requiring an extra 43,000 troops to me moved in and 21,000 permemntly housed in Darwin area. This would require the line capacity to be doubled, so extra engines and rollingstock were ordered (i.e the line was capable of handling the track, but rollingstock was the problem).
In Jun 1942 1300 trucks were used from Alice to Larrimah and could deliver 330 tons a day (the railway could move 500). The Line from Adelaide to Alice could move 300 tons of military traffic (in addition to civilian requirements). So the network capacity limit was between 300 and 500 tons.
Between Aug 1942 and Nov 1943 the road between Alice and Larrimah was rebuilt and bituman sealed, improving capacity.
In August 1944 in 24 hours 4 trains hauled 932 tons north, and three left Darwin with 492 tons (about what the Army prjected it needed for the Invasion of Indonesia forces). 19 trains were on the tracks that day requiring 31 engines (some of the longer heavier trains were double headed).
So to answer your question
300 tons of supply a day. Which was the limit accorss the entire network from Adelaide to Darwin. This doesn't include troops. This could be doubled if needed/towards the end of the war.
Cheers
Rob
ORIGINAL: witpqs
ORIGINAL: jrcar
AE has increased the importance of ports and naval support significantly, it could have done more but many people would have considered it unplayable. But AE hasn't been able to limit the movement of supplies overaland, in fact with the supply draw feature (which is needed for other reasons) it may be worse.
I took a look this morning - Tenant Creek has a maximum overland draw of 100 supply. So in theory that is the most that can move overland from Alice Springs toward Darwin. Is that still too much?
300 tons of supply a day. Which was the limit accorss the entire network from Adelaide to Darwin. This doesn't include troops. This could be doubled if needed/towards the end of the war.
Cheers
Rob
ORIGINAL: witpqs
ORIGINAL: jrcar
AE has increased the importance of ports and naval support significantly, it could have done more but many people would have considered it unplayable. But AE hasn't been able to limit the movement of supplies overaland, in fact with the supply draw feature (which is needed for other reasons) it may be worse.
I took a look this morning - Tenant Creek has a maximum overland draw of 100 supply. So in theory that is the most that can move overland from Alice Springs toward Darwin. Is that still too much?
So IRL was even less than allowed in AE. Which means it's not too much. [:)]
Ah part of my problem is I'm not useing the latest version of AE, so I don't have a supply draw limit. We are waiting to defat Joe and Niks invasion of Adak to upgrade
Havent been able to watch the turn yet so not 100% sure its not FOW but it sure looks like my guys avoided getting routed out of Fenton and kept their cohesion - just.....
Thats a Two Divisions plus armour pursuit force he is sending south.
1st and 3rd Motor Bdes are en route from Tennant Creek they will try to get close enough to act as rearguard for the retreating force
Ground combat at Fenton (76,126)
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 1746 troops, 38 guns, 237 vehicles, Assault Value = 1060
Defending force 3844 troops, 85 guns, 26 vehicles, Assault Value = 114
In reality, I'd be worried about mechanised forces getting onto my LoC if I were the Japanese commander. Is that tactic available to you?
Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com
Not easily he has so much air power at Darwin that a single Recce Bn would get massacred
A Bde would have a better chance because of its integrated AA
But in the open desert within 90 miles of 100 plus bombers is not a good place for a Bn to be
Maybe if he keeps after me into the deep desert I could risk it but I doubt he is daft enough to pursue me so far that I would have a chance of counter routing me.
He will probably send the armour after me off the main road but I would be amazed if his Infantry went much further than Katherine
OK unfortuantely his air power is being felt and my forces keep getting knocked into combat mode so I cannot run fast enough a second Bde of 18th Div may well end up dead tomorrow it will be a close run thing to get it out of the hex where his main force is.
I understand that you are moving up the 1st and 3rd Mot Bdes up to Daly Waters to act as a rearguard.
(1) Are the two motorised bdes prepped for Daly Waters?
(2) Are you intending to move your fleeing shattered army through Daly Waters without stopping until it reaches Tennant Creek, relying upon the prepped rearguard at Daly Waters to hold the enemy there for 5-7 days before they too retreat to Tennant Creek?
(3) How well is Alice Springs garrisoned and is that were the Allied armies make a determined stand?
(4) Are you concerned about a secondary enemy axis of Normanton (a new sea landing/paradrop) and Mt Isa?
From where I sit, I don't think you should be too concerned by forward defence in the Northern Territory, rather you should be trading space for time. Tennant Creek seems to be the first viable defensive line, although I think Alice Springs would be better.
1. They are prepping but are low levels at present.
2. Until it reaches Alice Springs actually.
3. I have a Corps HQ a base force and an Inf Bde there now with 2 more Bdes en route - more importantly I have enough light bomber sqns I can bring in that if he gets to close it will be painfull.
4. Yes - I have a base force and a Bn of Inf there now - the 5th RAA CD Regt is en route and an Inf Div in Strategic mode is at Charter Towers ready to go wherever needed.
The reason for standing at Daly waters at all is to let my Inf get a head start over his armour.
When we get off the main road his Inf units will slow down dramatically and its really just his two Armoured Regts I need to worry about.
I have no intention of letting my Motor bdes get into a fight for even a single Div their only role is to allow my Inf to move off in Move mode safely - even in Combat mode my Motor Bdes can move faster than his Inf so its all about stopping his Armoured regts alone from retreating my force
OK another turn passes and things are continuing to move I suspct another British Bde will get wiped out its heavily disrupted and not moving quickly enough
The other Bde should get away though.
When its safely past Daly waters I will make the decison whether or not I am going to rebuild 18th Brit Div.
Its going to be quite a difficult decison and I will need to consider all the implications
My initial view is if I get a single bde and the Recce Regt out more or less intact I might actually be able to rebuild it without stopping the re org of the Indian Army.
(the main reason why this might be possible is the following Indpt British Bns that I could sacrifice to rebuild the Div (de facto I would be transferring them into the Div in my own mind rather than disabading them)
Now depending on whether I am willing to disband some or all of these to provide replacements I could probably scare up enough troops to bring 18th Brit up to 80% and then let replacements do the rest.
I would be sacrificing some good Bns in order to rebuild the Div.
So not sure - if I was confident I could a. get them out of Malaya and b. that india wasnt his target then its a slam dunk.
But sacrificing experienced British Bns if India is the target is a mistake
Aircraft Attacking:
16 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet *
9 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet *
30 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet *
6 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet *
18 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet *
CAP engaged:
No.21 Sqn RAAF/A with Buffalo I (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 6000
Raid is overhead
No.21 Sqn RAAF/B with Buffalo I (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 6000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 1 minutes
No.21 Sqn RAAF/C with Buffalo I (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 6000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 2 minutes
AVG/1st Sqn with P-40B Warhawk (0 airborne, 2 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes
2-Vl.G.IV with CW-21B Demon (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 36 minutes
3e-1-VI.G.V Groep with B-339D (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000
Raid is overhead
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 272/273rd Bty 80th AT Gun Regiment, at 50,83 (Johore Bahru)
Weather in hex: Thunderstorms
Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes
Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 44
Ki-43-Ia Oscar x 28
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 39
Aircraft Attacking:
17 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 11000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 11000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
20 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 11000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
19 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 11000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
Also attacking III Indian Corps ...
Also attacking 272/273rd Bty 80th AT Gun Regiment ...
Also attacking III Indian Corps ...
Also attacking 272/273rd Bty 80th AT Gun Regiment ...
Also attacking III Indian Corps ...
Also attacking 272/273rd Bty 80th AT Gun Regiment ...
Also attacking III Indian Corps ...
Also attacking 272/273rd Bty 80th AT Gun Regiment ...
Also attacking III Indian Corps ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Manila Bay Defenses , at 78,77 (Bataan)
Weather in hex: Light rain
Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 35 minutes
Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-Ic Sally x 12
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 25
Ki-30 Ann x 41
Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Aircraft Attacking:
18 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
25 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
19 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
2 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
12 x Ki-21-Ic Sally bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
Also attacking 86th PS Coastal Artillery Battalion ...
Also attacking Manila Bay Defenses ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 100th Chinese Corps, at 89,58 (Wenchow)
Weather in hex: Clear sky
Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes
Japanese aircraft
Ki-30 Ann x 35
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
11 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
24 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
Also attacking 14th Chinese Base Force ...
Also attacking 100th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 88th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 14th Chinese Base Force ...
Also attacking 100th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 88th Chinese Corps ...
Also attacking 14th Chinese Base Force ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Bataan , at 78,77
Weather in hex: Light rain
Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 35 minutes
Japanese aircraft
Ki-30 Ann x 12
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 21
Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
21 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
Also attacking Asiatic Fleet ...
Also attacking Bataan ...
Also attacking Asiatic Fleet ...
Also attacking Bataan ...
Also attacking Asiatic Fleet ...
Also attacking Bataan ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 2/4 MG Battalion, at 76,127
Weather in hex: Clear sky
Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes
Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-Ic Sally x 27
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 14
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-Ic Sally: 1 damaged
Aircraft Attacking:
22 x Ki-21-Ic Sally bombing from 11000 feet *
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
5 x Ki-21-Ic Sally bombing from 11000 feet *
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
14 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 11000 feet *
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
Also attacking Gull Battalion ...
Also attacking Sparrow Battalion ...
Also attacking 55th British Brigade ...
Also attacking Gull Battalion ...
Also attacking 2/4 MG Battalion ...
Also attacking Sparrow Battalion ...
Also attacking 2/4 MG Battalion ...
Also attacking Sparrow Battalion ...
Also attacking 55th British Brigade ...
Also attacking 2/4 MG Battalion ...
Also attacking Sparrow Battalion ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Manila Bay Defenses , at 78,77 (Bataan)
Weather in hex: Light rain
Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 38 minutes
Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-Ic Sally x 23
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 24
Aircraft Attacking:
24 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
23 x Ki-21-Ic Sally bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Teloekbetoeng Base Force, at 76,129
Weather in hex: Clear sky
Raid spotted at 47 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes
Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 18
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 2 damaged
Aircraft Attacking:
26 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet *
12 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 13000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
19 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 13000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
18 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 13000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
21 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 13000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
4 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 13000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
18 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 13000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 86th PS Coastal Artillery Battalion, at 78,77 (Bataan)
Weather in hex: Light rain
Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes
Japanese aircraft
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 6
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-48-Ib Lily: 1 damaged
Aircraft Attacking:
6 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Calayan at 83,70
Japanese Ships
xAKL Choun Maru #8, Shell hits 1
Allied Ships
SS Swordfish
xAKL Choun Maru #8 is sighted by SS Swordfish
SS Swordfish attacking xAKL Choun Maru #8 on the surface
Smith, C.C. decides to submerge SS Swordfish due to damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Miri at 64,87
Japanese Ships
DD Urukaze
Allied Ships
SS Stingray
SS Stingray launches 4 torpedoes at DD Urukaze
Stingray bottoming out ....
Escort abandons search for sub
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Hollandia
TF 18 troops unloading over beach at Hollandia, 93,116
Defending units:
100th Chinese Corps
88th Chinese Corps
16th Construction Regiment
10th Group Army
25th Group Army
3rd War Area
14th Chinese Base Force
Assaulting units:
2nd Tank Regiment
4th Tank Regiment
1st Formosa Inf. Regiment
Tanaka Detachment
47th Infantry Regiment
16th Engineer Regiment
65th Brigade
48th Recon Regiment
9th Infantry Regiment
21st Division
48th Engineer Regiment
7th Tank Regiment
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
48th Field Artillery Regiment
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
2nd Mortar Battalion
4th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
20th Ind. Mtn Gun Battalion
9th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
14th Army
4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Bn /1
Defending units:
86th PS Coastal Artillery Battalion
91st PA Infantry Division
1st PA Infantry Division
41st PA Infantry Division
1st PA Constabulary Regiment
3rd/45th PS Inf Battalion
14th PS Engineer Regiment
Manila Bay Defenses
51st PA Infantry Division
4th Marine Regiment
26th PS Cavalry Regiment
4th PA Constabulary Regiment
1st/45th PS Inf Battalion
71st PA Infantry Division
Kowloon Brigade
194th Tank Battalion
21st PA Infantry Division
31st Infantry Regiment
11th PA Infantry Division
192nd Tank Battalion
2nd/45th PS Inf Battalion
57th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team
2nd PA Constabulary Regiment
31st PA Infantry Division
2nd PA Constblry HW Regiment
Asiatic Fleet
1st USMC AA Battalion
1st PI Base Force
88th PS Field Artillery Regiment
201st PA Construction Battalion
USAFFE
Far East USAAF
Clark Field USAAF Base Force
Bataan USN Base Force
Provisional GMC Gp
803rd Engineer Aviation Battalion
Cavite USN Base Force
200th & 515th Coast AA Regiment
301st Construction Battalion
202nd PA Construction Battalion
I Philippine Corps
Manila USAAF Base Force
II Philippine Corps
301st PA Field Artillery Regiment
Assaulting units:
68th Chinese Corps
75th Chinese Corps
39th Chinese Corps
77th Chinese Corps
32nd Chinese Corps
18th Chinese Corps
8th Chinese Corps
55th Chinese Corps
59th Chinese Corps
87th Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Corps
94th Chinese Corps
67th Chinese Corps
45th Chinese Corps
1st Chinese Cavalry Corps
22nd Artillery Regiment
26th Group Army
49th AA Regiment
3rd Heavy Mortar Regiment
33rd Group Army
56th AT Gun Regiment
There is a nasty little fight going on at Loyang that I am going to lose
I really just want to ignore China as much as I can !!
String has been going after my Java air force in a big way he has destroyed most of the java based fighters which is nasty means any evac pretty much becomes impossible
Nice result at Ichang. Not too many Allied players achieve any victories in China.
Alfred
Ichang is probably the exception. There are many AARs where the allies have recaptured this salient. weak japanese forces and a strong chinese army around it make it relatively easy
Bougainville, November 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9. It rained today.
