Basic tactics on how to use BB and CV?

[fflaguna]

What would you do?

Given:

• You have a Surface Combat TF with several BB, CA, and many CL/DD
• You have an Air Combat TF with three CV and many DD.
• Your adversary has the same on both counts.

Scenario 1: You spot his Surface Combat TF alone and don't know where the CVs are. What do you do?

Scenario 2: You spot his CVs alone and don't know where the BBs are. What do you do? Also, how do you maximize the results of a CV vs CV altercation?

Overall 3: Do you keep the BBs and CVs in the same hex at all times?

Overall 4: Would you send a BB task force off alone if you didn't know where the enemy fleets were?


What other basic tactical lessons have you learned throughout many hours of playing? I am looking for general advice that would greatly help out those who are new to the series. If your answer depends on whether or not we have a specific torpedo plane class, then it's too specific! [;)] See Speedy's reply below for an excellent example of the kind of responses I'm hoping to get!

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: fflaguna


What would you do?

Given:

• You have a Surface Combat TF with several BB, CA, and many CL/DD
• You have an Air Combat TF with three CV and many DD.
• Your adversary has the same on both counts.

Scenario 1: You spot his Surface Combat TF alone and don't know where the CVs are. What do you do?

Scenario 2: You spot his CVs alone and don't know where the BBs are. What do you do? Also, how do you maximize the results of a CV vs CV altercation?

Overall 3: Do you keep the BBs and CVs in the same hex at all times?

Overall 4: Would you send a BB task force off alone if you didn't know where the enemy fleets were?


What other basic tactical lessons have you learned throughout many hours of playing?

What side and what's the date?

[fflaguna]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
What side and what's the date?

We're speaking in generalities. If it matters, then the date is 13/42 and it is US vs US. [;)]

[Speedysteve]

Also what planes etc?
 
Based on what you've said above though. I would:
 
NOT move my SC TF away from my CV force. Mainly because the chance is slight of them having a SC. The Opposition just has to move there force 2-3 hexes i nthe other direction and if the DL is not high enough your force will miss them.
 
Also keeping your SC TF with your CV's protects them from SC TF AND provides additional flak if the enemy attacks since they may target SC TF ships in the same hex.
 
As to how to maximise a CV vs CV encounter. If they spot one another it's 90%+ guaranteed to have an action I would say. For detecting them the key is obvioisuly search planes, lots of them on several vectors.
 

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: fflaguna

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
What side and what's the date?

We're speaking in generalities. If it matters, then the date is 13/42 and it is US vs US. [;)]

Then you get general answers. Speedy's is very good. But a USN CV TF in January 1942 looks nothing like the beast of summer 1945. Coordination of CAP and attacks, radar, flak density, plane loads by class (I love me some Essex!)--all very different. Torpedo planes an order of magnitude more effective and long-ranged. Fighters . . . well, no comparison. In early 1942 I'd think pretty carefuly about running away. In summer 1945, wade in. Even if he sinks you there are a lot more carriers in the back room.

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: fflaguna

What would you do?

Given:

• You have a Surface Combat TF with several BB, CA, and many CL/DD
• You have an Air Combat TF with three CV and many DD.
• Your adversary has the same on both counts.

Scenario 1: You spot his Surface Combat TF alone and don't know where the CVs are. What do you do?

Scenario 2: You spot his CVs alone and don't know where the BBs are. What do you do? Also, how do you maximize the results of a CV vs CV altercation?

Overall 3: Do you keep the BBs and CVs in the same hex at all times?

Overall 4: Would you send a BB task force off alone if you didn't know where the enemy fleets were?


What other basic tactical lessons have you learned throughout many hours of playing? I am looking for general advice that would greatly help out those who are new to the series. If your answer depends on whether or not we have a specific torpedo plane class, then it's too specific! [;)] See Speedy's reply below for an excellent example of the kind of responses I'm hoping to get!

Your carrier screen is too weak. You need enough major combatants in the CVTF to provide a strong AA barrage and protection against a SAG raid at night when the carriers can't launch. Once you've addressed that, the rest of the surface vessels should be organised into SAGs to hunt carriers. If you can put your carriers out of enemy SAG and air range, you can release some or all of the major combatants in your screen to join your SAGs. Rule of thumb was that your carriers had to be at least 200 nautical miles from the nearest enemy major combatants at sun-down if you wanted to avoid an unpleasant visit about midnight. Both sides went carrier hunting at night.

[Akos Gergely]

* You have a Surface Combat TF with several BB, CA, and many CL/DD
* You have an Air Combat TF with three CV and many DD.
* Your adversary has the same on both counts.



Scenario 1: You spot his Surface Combat TF alone and don't know where the CVs are. What do you do?

Scenario 2: You spot his CVs alone and don't know where the BBs are. What do you do? Also, how do you maximize the results of a CV vs CV altercation?

Overall 3: Do you keep the BBs and CVs in the same hex at all times?

Overall 4: Would you send a BB task force off alone if you didn't know where the enemy fleets were?

Well, it's not easy to reply in general, as the real beauty of this game lays exactly in the details and specifics, but overal here is what I'd do (not necessarily the best tactics).

Scenario 1: no question, keep your SC and CV Tfs together in one hex, I generally put the SC TF in the lead with the CV TF following. in this case you're protected against a surprise nights surface combat and also have additional AA in your TFs. You can eve try to assign one or two BBs (or at least CAs) temporarily into the CV TF, 'cos only DDs means not too much added value against air attacks (well, unless we are talking about late 1944-45 USN DDs with anti-kamikaze refits).

Scen 2: Now this is where the specifics really start to matter. If you can afford to loose some of your SC TF ships and want to take a gamble, and have a direct line between your forces and the enemy CVs then I'd put my SC TF to max raction range (6) and plot a route to the enemy's hex with full speed. It's probably that a CV engagement will result the next turn and if you are lucky a surface combat will occure. I've done this in my PBEM against Juan, though I made a mistake. I went in at full speed and we got an engagement, bot both TFs evaded, despite having Halsey as my admiral. The problem was I had 2 or 3 of my CAs damaged by 250kg bombs the previous turn so they were not fast enough to catch the CVs, although they only had a really meager escort.
Generally this tactic is not bad to split the enemy's airstrikes as well, your CVs have a better chance of survival. Also you can apply long range CAP over your SC TF if you have enough fighter planes (this is really only an option for the USN later in the war).
Still I won't recommend this for rookies and it worth some tries against the AI before you do this in a PBEM.

[jimh009]

For the Allies in 1942, do not keep three US CV's in ONE large CV task force. That's a guarantee to have un-coordinated air strikes against the Japanese.  Ideally, for the Allies, during 1942 you want 1 CV in each CV task force. You can get away with two CV's per TF on occasion, but one is best. Additionally, by having only one CV in each TF - you reduce the probability of a Japanese attack wiping out all three carriers in one attack.

In the ideal world, you want one US CV per CV TF - and then keep all the CV task forces in the same hex to maximize CAP (have one follow the other to coordinate movement). In 1943, the ideal US CV TF consists of two CV's per task force - perhaps with a CVL too. 1944 is the year when the US can put three CV's in each CV task force without worrying about coordination issues.

As for what to with the surface forces in 1942, if they are fast battleships (North Carolina, etc...) - I'd put them in the CV TF itself for additional flak protection and to absorb some bombs/torpedoes. If they are slow battleships (Colorado, Arizona, etc...), then I'd keep the surface TF in the same hex as the CV TF's as by having these slow BB's in a CV TF you really end up slowing the potential moving speed of the CV's down.

For the Japanese, you can start right from the get-go with 3 CV's per TF - so no need to split everything up like you have to do with the Allies. That said, I still think it's good practice to have multiple CV task forces early in the game (even for Japan) instead of having one gigantic TF full of CV's. By late 1942, the Allies have plenty of striking power if they have all their carriers. By splitting up the CV's into multiple TF's (2-3 CV's per TF) and keeping the carriers in the same hex to provide CAP, you reduce the odds of a "Midway wipeout."

[JuanG]

ORIGINAL: jimh009

For the Allies in 1942, do not keep three US CV's in ONE large CV task force. That's a guarantee to have un-coordinated air strikes against the Japanese.  Ideally, for the Allies, during 1942 you want 1 CV in each CV task force. You can get away with two CV's per TF on occasion, but one is best. Additionally, by having only one CV in each TF - you reduce the probability of a Japanese attack wiping out all three carriers in one attack.

In the ideal world, you want one US CV per CV TF - and then keep all the CV task forces in the same hex to maximize CAP (have one follow the other to coordinate movement). In 1943, the ideal US CV TF consists of two CV's per task force - perhaps with a CVL too. 1944 is the year when the US can put three CV's in each CV task force without worrying about coordination issues.

As for what to with the surface forces in 1942, if they are fast battleships (North Carolina, etc...) - I'd put them in the CV TF itself for additional flak protection and to absorb some bombs/torpedoes. If they are slow battleships (Colorado, Arizona, etc...), then I'd keep the surface TF in the same hex as the CV TF's as by having these slow BB's in a CV TF you really end up slowing the potential moving speed of the CV's down.

For the Japanese, you can start right from the get-go with 3 CV's per TF - so no need to split everything up like you have to do with the Allies. That said, I still think it's good practice to have multiple CV task forces early in the game (even for Japan) instead of having one gigantic TF full of CV's. By late 1942, the Allies have plenty of striking power if they have all their carriers. By splitting up the CV's into multiple TF's (2-3 CV's per TF) and keeping the carriers in the same hex to provide CAP, you reduce the odds of a "Midway wipeout."

As Japan I tend to operate my carriers in pairs. Kaga and Akagi are slightly out with regards to speeds, so once the Junyos arrive I tend to use those with Kaga, and pair Akagi with the fast CVLs.

I'm also beginning to believe that placing all your carriers in one hex might not be the only good option - while it does concentrate CAP, the attacks then to spread out across all the TFs rather well, and I've noticed the CAP tends to be out of position occasionally. The disadvantage is of course that flak is less concentrated too, and occasionally a single CVTF may react somewhere while the others dont. As Japan the issue is also in finding enough DDs to screen all these TFs effectively.

When involving a SCTF, I tend to have it follow the CVs so as not the slow it down, set on either react 6 if I want it to go hunting, or react 0 if its just there for defence.

[FAdmiral]

ORIGINAL: fflaguna

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
What side and what's the date?

We're speaking in generalities. If it matters, then the date is 13/42 and it is US vs US. [;)]

If I was playing "RISK", then I would speak in generalities. But in a game like "WITP:AE"
the devil is in the details !!!

JIM

[fflaguna]

ORIGINAL: FAdmiral

ORIGINAL: fflaguna

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
What side and what's the date?

We're speaking in generalities. If it matters, then the date is 13/42 and it is US vs US. [;)]

If I was playing "RISK", then I would speak in generalities. But in a game like "WITP:AE"
the devil is in the details !!!

JIM

You have to crawl before you can walk, and I am asking for the basics like many people above provided.

[bradfordkay]

I would hate to have my BBs anywhere near an enemy CV TF during daylight hours without some form of CAP overhead.

I would hate to have my CV TFs anywhere near an enemy SC TF at night without some form of surface combattants to protect them.

[koontz]

Ok intersting thread!

How do u set youre CAP %?

Dunno if ive got it correctly (still an noob) for instance, if u sent youre fighters on escort and then set the CAP % at 50 does it mean that 50 goes escort and the other 50 is CAPing?

Anyway how do u set em?

Thanks!

[Barb]

As for me:
US - pair a single CV with at least 2-3 heavy vessels (BB, CA, CL) and screen. If you have heavy vessels to spare, then create SCTF, keep with carriers.
Japan - Put all three carriers into TF with 4-5 vessels and screen. Any spare heavy vessels create SCTF, but keep with carriers.

Once you have CV vs CV combat, determine who is the winner and set on pursuit (by SCTF covered and supported by CVTF) or take to heels[:)]

[freeboy]

ok, again we get back to when and what is the situation, one winning, cough, stategy is to use one or two raiders tf, fast ca cl or bb ca that the enemy either has to run from, launch against or take there chances with a surface engagement.. I for one if it where an even fight would love to make my oponeent choose weather to hit my carriers or face an overwelming daylight surface action... the problem is in the execution, and if you are not sure u can track the enemy down, watch out.. this gambit is full of perile.. for both sides! Best result the enemy launches against one oif the surface groups, slaughters it, sunk BB or CA, the other one reaches them right after the planes light up all there cv's, u got speed advantage and cripple or damaged cvs.. I have seen it work, BUT
worst case, enemy launches againt your carriers that have reduced cap and plugs them full of holes, and your fleets miss tehm .. seen that too! Again the situation is all critical, if you cannot afford to lose, don't attempt, or if you HAVE to sink theenemy fleet and go for a knockout where you have some bb or ca to lose again, maybe woth it, if you have an advantage you may want to do this or just club the enemy with your advantaged navy...
 
This one area, mio is the biggest example of the superiority of AE to WITP, IMO, of course there are so many!!!

[EUBanana]

ORIGINAL: koontz
How do u set youre CAP %?

Kinda depends really, 60% is the 'norm' but sometimes I go into death or glory mode and set it to 20%, if I'm sure I'm up against a large number of enemy CVs and I want to take a few of them with me!

[Ametysth]

Withdraw. There is absolutely no point going one-on-one battles as no clever trick or technical edge you can use in the game is enough to ensure victory on those circumstances.

Pull back, send your forces where your enemy isn't (since you now know where his carriers and battleships are) and use the opportunity to sink a supply convoy or two.