force supply draw button

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

This is not the case in my games, I set up a test at Ceylon and gave Colombo 500k then set Trincomalee to +1k and after 1 turn it shot up to 15k+ and after several more turns it has stayed 15k+. There has to be a need based on requirement before supplies will go there. If the base already has 10x its supply requirement then it does not have a need.

ORIGINAL: castor troy

even if the "draw 1000" means "draw 10.000" then it´s still not working. If I have a base with 300 supplies and press the "draw 1000" once (which means 10.000? [&:]) then I will still end up sucking up the supplies of a whole continent as it doesn´t stop at 10.300 either. As soon as you click on this feature you get a + behind the supply request and this means the routine won´t ever stop drawing supplies. If there are supplies to draw you will end up with hundreds of thousands supplies within a couple of days. And you only wanted 1300...

and if you set it to +1000 (plus? one thousand?), did it have 14.000 before the turn or did it have 200? Where did it start? That would be great to know because so far I can´t figure out how to use those buttons, no matter which one of the two. Everytime I did use them (gave up soon) I ended up with so many more supplies in the bases that it was not what I wanted. And I guess the first dozen of times I´ve ALWAYS only clicked ONCE on the increase 1000 button, but still always ended up with the normal base requirement multiplied by a magic factor that gave jungle bases ten thousands of supplies instead of just the desired 1500 or so.

[BigJ62]

Started with zero. Why don't you set up your own test and prove me wrong but I'm guessing you will not do that.

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

This is not the case in my games, I set up a test at Ceylon and gave Colombo 500k then set Trincomalee to +1k and after 1 turn it shot up to 15k+ and after several more turns it has stayed 15k+. There has to be a need based on requirement before supplies will go there. If the base already has 10x its supply requirement then it does not have a need.

ORIGINAL: castor troy

even if the "draw 1000" means "draw 10.000" then it´s still not working. If I have a base with 300 supplies and press the "draw 1000" once (which means 10.000? [&:]) then I will still end up sucking up the supplies of a whole continent as it doesn´t stop at 10.300 either. As soon as you click on this feature you get a + behind the supply request and this means the routine won´t ever stop drawing supplies. If there are supplies to draw you will end up with hundreds of thousands supplies within a couple of days. And you only wanted 1300...

and if you set it to +1000 (plus? one thousand?), did it have 14.000 before the turn or did it have 200? Where did it start? That would be great to know because so far I can´t figure out how to use those buttons, no matter which one of the two. Everytime I did use them (gave up soon) I ended up with so many more supplies in the bases that it was not what I wanted. And I guess the first dozen of times I´ve ALWAYS only clicked ONCE on the increase 1000 button, but still always ended up with the normal base requirement multiplied by a magic factor that gave jungle bases ten thousands of supplies instead of just the desired 1500 or so.

[medicff]

ok i will post a save to have to you look at if you don't mind. I won't be able to post for a week. I am out of town now. Thanks for the answers.

Pat

[seille]

ORIGINAL: SeethingErmine
BigJ62 explains the 10x desired target, but it's easy to miss (or forget in game) how critical this is in a network of bases. All it takes is one place where you say, hey I want to stockpile 25K here, let's click the requested supply up to +25K. Suddenly that base is trying to hog a quarter of a million supply (25,000 "requested" becomes 250,000 desired target), and all your other troops go hungry!

Thanks, this helped. I was just on my way to increase the supply at Maebashi and Gifu way too much since like pad152
i did not know anything about the second (10x) loop.
Will have to adjust the supply request a lot. Had put both bases to 12.000+ to make sure repairs can start.
Thanks to you and BigJ and of course Damian who send me into this thread

[Nomad]

Thank you BigJ62 for explaining this. It now makes a lot of sense to me and now I know how to set things up right( mostly just leave them alone [:D]).

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

Started with zero. Why don't you set up your own test and prove me wrong but I'm guessing you will not do that.

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

This is not the case in my games, I set up a test at Ceylon and gave Colombo 500k then set Trincomalee to +1k and after 1 turn it shot up to 15k+ and after several more turns it has stayed 15k+. There has to be a need based on requirement before supplies will go there. If the base already has 10x its supply requirement then it does not have a need.

and if you set it to +1000 (plus? one thousand?), did it have 14.000 before the turn or did it have 200? Where did it start? That would be great to know because so far I can´t figure out how to use those buttons, no matter which one of the two. Everytime I did use them (gave up soon) I ended up with so many more supplies in the bases that it was not what I wanted. And I guess the first dozen of times I´ve ALWAYS only clicked ONCE on the increase 1000 button, but still always ended up with the normal base requirement multiplied by a magic factor that gave jungle bases ten thousands of supplies instead of just the desired 1500 or so.

well, as you already guessed I´m not doing it...[8|]

you know, I don´t care anyway anymore... just like in the thread about Cap that went off any normal way, you are right, I am wrong

to point out to everyone: EVERYTHING IN THIS GAME IS WORKING VERY WELL AND WORKING AS DESIGNED! THERE IS NOTHING WRONG AND IF SO, DON´T YOU DARE TO SAY TO ANYONE... PRAISE MATRIX, PRAISE THE DEVS AND NEVER EVEN THINK ABOUT DOING ANYTHING THAT COULD CRITISIZE ANYONE, HEIL, HEIL, HEIL

one thing WITP was way ahead of AE, at least the guys back then didn´t tick out all the time if someone said something isn´t working... but hey, everything is working fine in AE anyway... no problem with invasions, no problems with Zero vs P-40 kill rates of 5:1+ in nearly every AAR, etc. there has been never something wrong since release, only some people have become so thinskinned that I suggest putting out a sticky thread with "words not allowed to use" and "things not to talk about at all"...

perhaps I´m just too dumb to understand it anyway (looks like there are several forum members as dumb as poor old castor too) but why does a jungle base end up with ten thousand of supplies if I got two base forces there and clicked ONCE on the +1k?

Like I´ve said, perhaps I just don´t understand it, but this could also be due to an undocumented feature and a for sure not right message when you hover over the button.

Could be that my wording in one of the early posts in this thread was as wrong as everything worded in the Uber Cap thread, could be I´m wrong all the time, could also be that the thinskinned are pissed off again. [&:] Could also be that I´m just becoming more and more sarcastic.

If it started with 0 and you tell it to draw 1.000, why does it have 15.000 then? So what is wrong now, the amount of supply that is drawn in (which you say isn´t) or the message you get when hovering over the button? I don´t get it, but this, again, could be due to me just not being smart enough. In any way, IMO what happens and what the message says is for sure not corresponding. [&:] The only thing that is sure is the routine draws supplies.

[RHoenig]

Excuse this newbe saying so, but this "set demand to +1.000 to get +10.000" is so much counterintuitive, it just boggles my mind how anyone could have come up with it.

[seille]

As far as i understood you should get the requested in the first run 1000 and if the conditions met you get up to 10x
requested in a second run, so max 11.000.
BigJ explained very detailled. I´m confident it will work that way, but you´re right the whole
thing is counterintuitive.

[castor troy]

I´ve gone through those calculations a dozen of times I guess and came to the conclusion that the message you get when hovering over the button surely isn´t correct because increase supply requirement by 1000 is ending up in x but never in 1000. Ok, so you have to do the calculation (hope everyone also has a calculator with him when playing) to figure out how many supplies there will be in the end.

So while everyone that has read this thread on the forum now knows that it doesn´t mean you draw 1000 supplies and it doesn´t mean you draw 10.000 supplies either, I wonder what all the rest of the people not reading this thread are thinking. It´s wad then, but (and noone take this offensive) it´s a not that perfect design decision to have a base draw x supply based on a magic formula (that always has a completely different result, based on the original supply requirement). If you put such a feature into a GAME, why not doing it like this: SET SUPPLY REQUIREMENT TO x ? Instead a magic formula is used that isn´t even documented and too much work to figure out all the time (because if you move a single ac in it changes).

[drw61]

BigJ62, thanks for posting this.
The problem with this is that the verbiage on the mouse over states "increase supply by 1000" it would make more sense to read "increase supply by 10000" and maybe get rid of the "increase supply by 25000" button altogether. It would be a lot more clear to players that have not read this thread.


Thanks, Daryl

[Nomad]

I don't understand, this is so simple. First, every base, it makes no matter if you have used the increase supply requirements button or not, will first try to get 1x its supply requirements. then it will try to get 10x its supply requirements. No base will allow supply to be taken from it if it does not have 10x its own supply requirement. Note that a Command HQ will increase the requirement by 25K, so that base will try to get 10x its supply requirement plus 250,000 supply, and will not release any of it.

[RHoenig]

I absolutely agree, ct.
I have been playing around with AE since it came out (obviously not as extensive as many around here) and it never once occured to me this would not be the case. I mean, when I set the requirements on a base to, say 6500 supplies, of course I thought I was telling the AI that I wanted 6500 supplies at that base; what could be easier than that?

Now that I think about it, I realize the first "round" of supplying the basic demand (in the above example 6.500) and later on piling up additional, surplus suppies may be in order to prevent other bases to run dry and only then pile the remaining stuff in.
However, how about that: Have the first round, where all bases will receive 10% of the requirement or 100% of the requirements due to troops/planes/etc. (is this number tracked seperately?), so none will run dry, and then try to fullfill the complete demand?
Would make a lot more sense to me.

Edit: Ok, it looks like there was a _tiny_ misunderstanding on my part what the term "supplies required" means. Yes, I haven´t read the whole manual, so sue me [:)]

I honestly thought, "supplies required" meant, this is the amount of supplies, the AI would try to put into this base - period. If I wanted any more, I would have to increase the requirement manually. How could I be so stupid to think it would be so easy - < shaking my head >

[Nomad]

ORIGINAL: drw61

BigJ62, thanks for posting this.
The problem with this is that the verbiage on the mouse over states "increase supply by 1000" it would make more sense to read "increase supply by 10000" and maybe get rid of the "increase supply by 25000" button altogether. It would be a lot more clear to players that have not read this thread.


Thanks, Daryl

Seems like your game is different than mine. Mine says increase REQUIRED supply by 1000.

[Nomad]

ORIGINAL: RHoenig

I absolutely agree, ct.
I have been playing around with AE since it came out (obviously not as extensive as many around here) and it never once occured to me this would not be the case. I mean, when I set the requirements on a base to, say 6500 supplies, of course I thought I was telling the AI that I wanted 6500 supplies at that base; what could be easier than that?

Now that I think about it, I realize the first "round" of supplying the basic demand (in the above example 6.500) and later on piling up additional, surplus suppies may be in order to prevent other bases to run dry and only then pile the remaining stuff in.
However, how about that: Have the first round, where all bases will receive 10% of the requirement or 100% of the requirements due to troops/planes/etc. (is this number tracked seperately?), so none will run dry, and then try to fullfill the complete demand?
Would make a lot more sense to me.

Then why do they print the supplys in red/orange if you have less that 2x the required supply? A base tries to stockpile supplies, not just up to the required amount, but up to 10x what are required.

[drw61]

You are absolutely correct! I should have looked closer.
The point I was tying to make is to have the verbiage reflect what is happening overall in the game to make it less confusing.

Thanks Daryl

ORIGINAL: Nomad

ORIGINAL: drw61

BigJ62, thanks for posting this.
The problem with this is that the verbiage on the mouse over states "increase supply by 1000" it would make more sense to read "increase supply by 10000" and maybe get rid of the "increase supply by 25000" button altogether. It would be a lot more clear to players that have not read this thread.


Thanks, Daryl

Seems like your game is different than mine. Mine says increase REQUIRED supply by 1000.

[Nomad]

I understand that they could have implemented it differently, but they didn't. Now that BigJ62 provided his explanation, it is easy to see how it works and to use. Actually, you should rarely have to use it. Understand that if you do not have excess supply in the area you are not going to get any extra. No base will release supply that will take it under 10x its required supply, so you will have to have at least one base with a lot of supply. If you don't have that base, all of your button clicking will do little. I see the buttons useful to get supply to bases in Japan that have no or a small supply requirement. Also useful to try and draw supply away from a base that is going to be overrun and has no inherent supply requirement. Other than those time, I see little use for the buttons, possibly to raise supply requirement at a base you are using to supply TFs( San Diego maybe? ).

[RHoenig]

ORIGINAL: Nomad

ORIGINAL: RHoenig

I absolutely agree, ct.
I have been playing around with AE since it came out (obviously not as extensive as many around here) and it never once occured to me this would not be the case. I mean, when I set the requirements on a base to, say 6500 supplies, of course I thought I was telling the AI that I wanted 6500 supplies at that base; what could be easier than that?

Now that I think about it, I realize the first "round" of supplying the basic demand (in the above example 6.500) and later on piling up additional, surplus suppies may be in order to prevent other bases to run dry and only then pile the remaining stuff in.
However, how about that: Have the first round, where all bases will receive 10% of the requirement or 100% of the requirements due to troops/planes/etc. (is this number tracked seperately?), so none will run dry, and then try to fullfill the complete demand?
Would make a lot more sense to me.

Then why do they print the supplys in red/orange if you have less that 2x the required supply? A base tries to stockpile supplies, not just up to the required amount, but up to 10x what are required.

I have added an edit to my post above, but what you say still doesn´t make complete sense (well, the game mechanics, actually, not what you said) If a base actually needs two or three times the required supplies, why not set the requirement to two or three times (or even the 10 times we have now). First try to fullfill the basic (1/2, 1/3 or 1/10) requirement and then the full demand. This way, what is displayed and what is happening would at least match.

I understand how it is supposed to work now, but gee, who came up with this mechanism?

[Nomad]

ORIGINAL: RHoenig

ORIGINAL: Nomad

ORIGINAL: RHoenig

I absolutely agree, ct.
I have been playing around with AE since it came out (obviously not as extensive as many around here) and it never once occured to me this would not be the case. I mean, when I set the requirements on a base to, say 6500 supplies, of course I thought I was telling the AI that I wanted 6500 supplies at that base; what could be easier than that?

Now that I think about it, I realize the first "round" of supplying the basic demand (in the above example 6.500) and later on piling up additional, surplus suppies may be in order to prevent other bases to run dry and only then pile the remaining stuff in.
However, how about that: Have the first round, where all bases will receive 10% of the requirement or 100% of the requirements due to troops/planes/etc. (is this number tracked seperately?), so none will run dry, and then try to fullfill the complete demand?
Would make a lot more sense to me.

Then why do they print the supplys in red/orange if you have less that 2x the required supply? A base tries to stockpile supplies, not just up to the required amount, but up to 10x what are required.

I have added an edit to my post above, but what you say still doesn´t make complete sense (well, the game mechanics, actually, not what you said) If a base actually needs two or three times the required supplies, why not set the requirement to two or three times (or even the 10 times we have now). First try to fullfill the basic (1/2, 1/3 or 1/10) requirement and then the full demand. This way, what is displayed and what is happening would at least match.

I understand how it is supposed to work now, but gee, who came up with this mechanism?

That would most likely be Gary Grigsby. This is how it worked in the original WitP and AE expanded on it and made it much better and easier to use IHMO.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Nomad

I don't understand, this is so simple. First, every base, it makes no matter if you have used the increase supply requirements button or not, will first try to get 1x its supply requirements. then it will try to get 10x its supply requirements. No base will allow supply to be taken from it if it does not have 10x its own supply requirement. Note that a Command HQ will increase the requirement by 25K, so that base will try to get 10x its supply requirement plus 250,000 supply, and will not release any of it.

so in your oppinion it´s a smart decision to have a base with let´s say 1000 base requirement have +1000 (=2000) x10? So a base that would need 1000 ends up with at least 20.000? If I have a base with starting requirement and want to increase it then probably not to 20x the starting requirement. You want to have it at 5000 for example but not at 20k. And then it´s no wonder you see those jungles bases with 50.000+ supplies within no time if supply is available, because the starting requirment was 4.000 perhaps. To me, if it is WAD (and it seems to be WAD) it´s more than a bad design decision then and when looking at the info message you get (increase supply requirenemt by 1000) I have serious doubts that it really is what is what meant to be.

The increase by 1000 and increase by 25.000 (or whatever the other button is) would make sense, how it is now doesn´t IMO.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Nomad

ORIGINAL: drw61

BigJ62, thanks for posting this.
The problem with this is that the verbiage on the mouse over states "increase supply by 1000" it would make more sense to read "increase supply by 10000" and maybe get rid of the "increase supply by 25000" button altogether. It would be a lot more clear to players that have not read this thread.


Thanks, Daryl

Seems like your game is different than mine. Mine says increase REQUIRED supply by 1000.

nice nitpicking... [:D] even if it says increase REQUIRED supply by 1000, how could a player dare to think it would mean what it says...