Naval pursuit

[Dancing Bear]

Since there seems to be some renewed interest in updating the naval game, I'd like to comment in the existing pursuit after evasion rule. Can we have this rule changed so that fleets with transports can not pursue?

It seems unusual that slow moving transports that can only move three areas, can suddenly take off across the map in pursuit of an opponents' fleet, and I can not imagine that a transports fleet's escort would be allowed to leave the transports behind.

I would think the same would apply when we get pursuit for regular naval combats as well. Transports are slow, and there should be no back door allowing them rapid movement to an opponents coast.

[kirk23_MatrixForum]

Excellent point Dancing Bear,I agree in no circumstance should a fleet escorting transports be able to pursuit,and on the other hand for the same reason, any fleet escorting transports should be unable to evade.

[bresh]

I do agree transports should not join any pursuits, not even if they had the had the movement.

I dont see why transport fleets cant evade, evasion is not always just outsailing the other, sometimes its using of weather, or that the sea areas are rather big. Keep in mind, game does not take into account number of ships in fleets compared to area.

About escorts, problem is how to split fleets, so that each fleet needs a seperate intercept order, for them to join a pursuit, while those with no intercept order, remain in the sea area after naval battle.

Regards
Bresh

[kirk23_MatrixForum]

ORIGINAL: bresh

I do agree transports should not join any pursuits, not even if they had the had the movement.

I dont see why transport fleets cant evade, evasion is not always just outsailing the other, sometimes its using of weather, or that the sea areas are rather big. Keep in mind, game does not take into account number of ships in fleets compared to area.

About escorts, problem is how to split fleets, so that each fleet needs a seperate intercept order, for them to join a pursuit, while those with no intercept order, remain in the sea area after naval battle.

Regards
Bresh

Bresh I totally agree that the game does not take into account,the number of ships in fleets compared to the size of sea area,that is why I suggested something along the lines of my naval combat scenario below,for which there has been the usual indifference to the suggestion by gamers,even althought it is based on fact and not fiction like the current set of rules are.

Example:
Lets say that just because a sea area contains 3 British fleets off 60 Heavy ships, does not mean that all 60 ships,would be in a position to take part, in any combat action that takes place in the sea area.

My reason for this statement is based on the fact that,in 90% of sea battles fought during, the Napoleonic period this was indeed true.Why is this true,well I shall explain,in the age of sail, all ships are at the mercy of the wind and tides,and each and every ship involved had different sailing qualities,some were fast sailers and some were much slower,which meant that they often spread out more when ordered into battle,plus the crews ability and moral played a very big part in any battle,as naval battles were fought over great distances,that could be anything from 5 - 50 miles approx in size,it also shows what happens when the 2 opposing forces,make initial contact from different angles & direction.

So to simulate the effect of fleets being spread out over a large area,I propose that a D6 die roll be made, to take this into account,this simple step will give the game a much needed boost to the naval combat.It now means that just because you have a big stack off 3 or more fleets of ships,does not automatically mean you will win the battle, or for that matter be able to contain ships in a port blockade,the element of surprise and chance now come into play!

For far to long the tactic of putting a huge stack of ships in the blockade box, and then forgetting about the bottled up enemy fleet,has just led to the naval aspect of the game to stagnate,and be predictable and boring,now with the addition of the D6 die roll for actual fleet combat numbers,the players assumption that his bigger fleet stack will win,now has an element of doubt attached,as the saying goes assumption is the mother of all **** ups!!!

The player with a smaller fleet,France & Spain etc,could with the luck of a die roll,now be in a position to attempt more combat & break any port blockades.

How this is calculated see below:

To see how many of the 60 British ships actually take part in any combat.

Die roll 1 - 2 = 25% of the 60 British ships = 15 ships only are allowed to fight in combat.
Die roll 3 = 50% of the 60 British ships = 30 ships only are allowed to fight in combat.
Die roll 4 = 75% of the 60 British ships = 45 ships only are allowed to fight in combat.
Die roll 5 - 6 = 100% of the 60 British ships = all 60 are allowed to fight in combat.

French & Spanish combined fleet of 40 ships.

To see how many of the 40 French & Spanish ships actually take part in any combat.

Die roll 1 - 2 = 25% of the 40 French & Spanish ships = 10 ships only are allowed to fight in combat.
Die roll 3 = 50% of the 40 French & Spanish ships = 20 ships only are allowed to fight in combat.
Die roll 4 = 75% of the 40 French & Spanish ships = 30 ships only are allowed to fight in combat.
Die roll 5 - 6 = 100% of the French & Spanish ships = all 40 are allowed to fight in combat.

As you can see depending on each sides die roll,the weaker force could in fact end up the stronger force?

[Dancing Bear]

Graham
wasn't searching the seas for enemy fleets a job for Frigates, not heavies? The frigates would rush back to the main fleet of heavies (or maybe relay signals between a series of ships and land based Semaphore machines) and then triangulate the heavies into the battle? What else were light ships for except for messages and observation?

I'm pretty sure once the French were spotted by a British frigate or two, that frigate would go get all the heavies from one central fleet to the battle. It would seem dangerous to have your main fighting force split up.

Maybe modify your rules to reflect the number of light ships in a fleet and the effectiveness of the Admiral in deploying them as scouts (this might be a reason why light ships would be more than just cannon fodder). It would also be easier to intercept larger enemy fleets than smaller ones.

[bresh]

I dont like the idea, i belive it was more like DB described.

Graham in your example GB would not know if he had the advantage till the battle actually starts. Worst case scenario would then be 15 GB ships vs 40....

Keep in mind 1 turn is 1 month.
Only few games can run close to realism, they would require simultanious movement etc.

Regards
Bresh

[Obsolete]

Well I find it very interesting how different things are on this side of the forum, and in TOAW III threads.  Over there, even the slight mentioning of developers wanting to improve the naval aspects, can be soon followed by quite some hostility.