Japanese strategy - turn 1 *** no Yank**

[sven6345789]

you will bag the whole area anyhow. No matter if you come from the north or land down at Mersing. The Mersing operation might cause you more losses though. I consider that any ship you do not need to loose is one ship to many, at least for the japanese.
Historically, the japanese always advanced under LBA cover. I would advice to follow that strategy. KB can be helpful, but there is the risk of taking damage to your carriers (subs, for instance).
Since a steady advance will lead to the same results, there is no need for a all or nothing tactic regarding malaya and the SRA. You should save that for the second operational phase, regarding targets like Oz, New Caledonia, Fiji, or India.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: vlcz

Can not agree with q-ball this time, Mersing can be covered , khota is taked easily with only the fist wave, and singkawang at the same time with some other (*) fleet, and you can cover mersing from both bases quite well. Done against human, and very useful specially if he is taking a Sir Robin.

Understood, but the original question was a landing on Mersing TURN 1. Can't be done under aircover, and in fact on Dec 8th they will still be pretty exposed, to both torp planes and Force Z. No, a landing at Mersing the first few days is not feasible.

It is once you get Singkawang and bases further up the coast, which is week 2. I said that it was a good idea once that happens, but it depends on catching your opponent napping. A good opponent will move all the Australians to Mersing, negating this. If the Allies are evacuating Malaya, you definitely want to have a Mersing landing ready.

Malaya is a problem for Japan. The more I look at it, the more I think the best Allied strategy is to move everyone to Singapore, leave a couple small units to just hold up the Japanese columns and guard against paras. You can either stand in Singapore or evacuate, but either way, no reason to resist north of Singapore, other than Mersing.

[khyberbill]

My opponent hit Mersing after a few turns and could have taken it the first turn if he had chosen to; then he isolated Singapore. However, his whole strategy is to take SRA/DEI/Malaya as quickly as possible and so all of his carriers were also sent there except for one group that attacked Sydney. I did manage to get POW out as well as a few CA and that was about it.

I might add that PH and Manila were not hit and I have much better air assets than is normal at an early stage of the game, plus all those lovely subs at Manila that really wont be effective for a year but then their presence will be felt. I would rather have those planes, the subs and the entire BB fleet at PH intact than all the little freighters that got sunk fleeing Soerabaja, Singers etc.

The torpedo bombers out of Singers did got a few licks in but also were hurt bad by CAP from the CV's. I got fragments of all the Indian forces out of Malaya so those will be rebuilt. It was awful watching all the airstrikes on fleeing ship as well as those in port for a few weeks straight but now it is nice not having any BB's in port repairing for 795 days as well! All in all, I guess this approach has a lot of action but I think I am better off now than from a more traditional attack on Pearl.

[undercovergeek]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

ORIGINAL: vlcz

Can not agree with q-ball this time, Mersing can be covered , khota is taked easily with only the fist wave, and singkawang at the same time with some other (*) fleet, and you can cover mersing from both bases quite well. Done against human, and very useful specially if he is taking a Sir Robin.

Understood, but the original question was a landing on Mersing TURN 1. Can't be done under aircover, and in fact on Dec 8th they will still be pretty exposed, to both torp planes and Force Z. No, a landing at Mersing the first few days is not feasible.

It is once you get Singkawang and bases further up the coast, which is week 2. I said that it was a good idea once that happens, but it depends on catching your opponent napping. A good opponent will move all the Australians to Mersing, negating this. If the Allies are evacuating Malaya, you definitely want to have a Mersing landing ready.

Malaya is a problem for Japan. The more I look at it, the more I think the best Allied strategy is to move everyone to Singapore, leave a couple small units to just hold up the Japanese columns and guard against paras. You can either stand in Singapore or evacuate, but either way, no reason to resist north of Singapore, other than Mersing.

yeah, sorry i missed out an important bit - take Kuantan turn 1 - be offshore at Mersing and then unload turn 2 capped from kuantan with a pile of engineers to make this a decent airbase - i need to try against AI because i dont know whether the initial Singapore invasion force without the Imp Guards is enough to take Sing with whats there on turn 1 because he wont be able to get more troops in when i close the peninsula - is it cheating to ask the first turn AV value for whats in Sing and the fortresses?

So other than that its a go-er yes?

[findmeifyoucan]

I am quite sure it is possible to take Mersing and Singapore early against an unaggressive Allied commander. However, all these resources devoted to taking Singapore. Is it really worth that much? There are other strategies. What about Tavoy and Rangoon early or even by passing Singapore completely and taking Borneo, Palenbang and Java first. Singapore will fall eventually, by by-passing it in the beginning eventually supply will deplete to nothing and Singapore will be handed to you on a silver platter with next to no cost or casualties. What does Singapore have, a nice naval base and air base but I'd much rather have the oil and resources further south early!!

[findmeifyoucan]

I think there is a flaw in your calculations. You are not accounting for any of these subs from Manila being sunk by Japanese ASw attacks. I think a concentrated effort on AC training in ASW and ASW fleet surface escorts would tip the balance a little.

[Mynok]

ORIGINAL: findmeifyoucan

I am quite sure it is possible to take Mersing and Singapore early against an unaggressive Allied commander. However, all these resources devoted to taking Singapore. Is it really worth that much? There are other strategies. What about Tavoy and Rangoon early or even by passing Singapore completely and taking Borneo, Palenbang and Java first. Singapore will fall eventually, by by-passing it in the beginning eventually supply will deplete to nothing and Singapore will be handed to you on a silver platter with next to no cost or casualties. What does Singapore have, a nice naval base and air base but I'd much rather have the oil and resources further south early!!

Singapore has the most critical piece of real estate required for getting all those resources back to the home islands: a large port. It is an absolutely vital piece of the puzzle.

Besides, unless you are planning to spend massive effort and denude the rest of your operations of IJA bomber support, you won't keep the airfield interdicted and it will be a massive thorn in your side.

Singapore was first for a very good reason.

[bigbaba]

just a question from someone who never played japanese in AE:

why not attacking PH with the KB AND manila via zero escorted IJN LBA from formosa like in WITP?

this way, you can get your BBs at pearl AND the nasty subs at manila.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: bigbaba

just a question from someone who never played japanese in AE:

why not attacking PH with the KB AND manila via zero escorted IJN LBA from formosa like in WITP?

this way, you can get your BBs at pearl AND the nasty subs at manila.

You can absolutely do that, provided you are not playing historical first turn, AND there is no HR limiting port attacks turn 1. No reason you can't do that though. It's preferable to hitting Clark and Iba, because those attacks in game are not very effective.

RE SINGAPORE: This could be the single most important early objective for the Japanese. It's a must. If you want to conserve forces, skip Luzon instead; I don't advise that either in AE, but it's less important than Sinagpore.

Many players have HR against moving surface ships into the Malacca Strait past Sinagpore until it falls. Reason is that IRL, the 15in Guns at Singapore could reach all the way to the Sumatra shore, making that strait impassable for the Japanese. But even without that rule, you MUST take it.

Singapore is objective #1 for the Empire.

undercovergeek: RE: Mersing, it is possible to pick up the Kuantan invasion force and move it to Mersing. Could work. A good Allied opponent would be advised to move all Australians to Mersing turn 1, and some other units though, to prevent this. In fact, other than Singapore itself, Mersing is the only point I would try to defend on the Malayan peninsula.

I have always cancelled the Kuantan landings, because the roads are so bad, but I might do it next time.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: bigbaba

just a question from someone who never played japanese in AE:

why not attacking PH with the KB AND manila via zero escorted IJN LBA from formosa like in WITP?

this way, you can get your BBs at pearl AND the nasty subs at manila.

There are a variety of HRs against this.

Personally, I think that the IJ only should be able to port attack on turn one on only one side of the International Date Line. Either the Phillipines have ~8 hours to get ready or the Hawaiian islands have about 16 hours to get ready-IJN choice-but it's unreasonable to expect that both would attacks would surprise the allies. Metaphysics and time/space continuum and all that...

In effecting my Manila strike I also throw the Formosa bombers into the mix, hitting Clark and Manila again, in addition to the KB strikes on the latter. I think you need lots of numbers of bombers to get most of the subs at Manila-I doubt the Formosa bombers would be sufficient by themselves.

[xj900uk]

True but the strikes on the PI (especially Clarke) mid-morning 8th of Dec (other side of the international date line) managed to catch the US completely by surprise even though the base had had definite confirmation of the raid on PH beforehand.
The reasons for this have been discussed, debated and argued about ever since.  Nobody has quite come up with a valid explanation

[Mynok]

Sure they have. Mac was an idiot. [:'(]

[Q-Ball]

That's a good point Chickenboy I hadn't thought of; how could you do a dawn sneak attack at Pearl and Manila simultaneously?

You can't. Now, USAAFE forces WERE caught on the ground in the event, but they knew there was a war on. Was the Asiatic Fleet in a similar state of unreadiness? Would a Nettie port attack on Cavite been effective? I think probably not, as they were readying for sea.

[vlcz]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Either the Phillipines have ~8 hours to get ready or the Hawaiian islands have about 16 hours to get ready-IJN

well..I think the japanese had the technology to avoid so a big difference in timing (a clock and a abacus would suffice [8|]) .... A perfect timing is imposible for sure (so bye bye total surprise ) but 8 hours...

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Sure they have. Mac was an idiot. [:'(]

No argument there, but even his idiocy was insufficient to bend the principles of quantum mechanics.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
Was the Asiatic Fleet in a similar state of unreadiness? Would a Nettie port attack on Cavite been effective? I think probably not, as they were readying for sea.

Don't think it was so unready. I believe that they were making way or (the SS) had submerged in the harbor by then.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Now, USAAFE forces WERE caught on the ground in the event, but they knew there was a war on.

Also, didn't Clark get pounded later in the morning. IIRC, the AF did scramble ASAP in the morning, only to get pounded when they returned to base later that morning.

Although this initial early foray by the USAAFE was unsuccessful, it does indicate that morning attacks by the PI-based planes should be permitted if one elects for an attack on Hawaii.

[SqzMyLemon]

I have a quick question regarding Singapore. I have no idea what the fortifications level is, but does the game take into account the fact the defences were focused on a seaborne attack and not inland, making it a much weaker base in reality?

[undercovergeek]

need to check something with you guys - with a bit of swapping around and jiggery pokery i can land the 65th brigade, a snlf or two and a base force at Balikpapan on turn 1 - is this fair and right? too aggressive? too gamey?

remember the strategy is to go take what it is i came for - oilfields and the strategic capitals of the zones involved - Sing, Palembang, Soerbaja, Balikpapan and Miri it cuts off a huge detour and means the 4 divisions tasked to taking the javan/sumatran capitals dont have so far to go - on the last test run against the AI 3 midgets broke into Pearl but no torps exploded - gutted!

Forgot to add - by moving all the Nates and Oscars to Patani on turn 1 the Nates provided an excellent LRCAP over Kuantan and the Oscars and Zeros LRCAPped Mersing - in the end no hits were scored on the landing craft and many a Vildebeest and Swordfish met their doom - the 3rd Air HQ and the 22 Air Flotilla HQ are headed to Patani to fix whats broke and then everyone will move to the new airbase at Kuantan.

Does anyone know if by sitting at Johore Bharu ive cut the supply line to Sing or do i need Malacca?

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek

need to check something with you guys - with a bit of swapping around and jiggery pokery i can land the 65th brigade, a snlf or two and a base force at Balikpapan on turn 1 - is this fair and right? too aggressive? too gamey?

remember the strategy is to go take what it is i came for - oilfields and the strategic capitals of the zones involved - Sing, Palembang, Soerbaja, Balikpapan and Miri it cuts off a huge detour and means the 4 divisions tasked to taking the javan/sumatran capitals dont have so far to go - on the last test run against the AI 3 midgets broke into Pearl but no torps exploded - gutted!

I think it's gamey, only because I don't see how a transport force could get that deep into the DEI without detection.