Shattered Vow

[Chickenboy]

Sorry, my bad. You're right about Burma. My "CBI" was exclusively restricted to China. I used the wrong acronym to mean CHINA THEATER. All of my arguments were intended thusly.

[Q-Ball]

There is no doubt that a strat bomb restriction in China only benefits the Japanese. That's why they need a balance; the Allies shouldn't strat bomb any Japanese OIL until 1944. That prevents cheapo strat bombing in 1942 by the Dutch; the Allies were not going to bomb targets in the SRA in 1942 for fear of killing civilians, even if they could. You shouldn't be able to in game either. That's my opinion.

For the Japanese, wiping out Chinese industry is way too easy, and needs to be limited. Japanese players deserve a break in return, and unmolested exploitation of Oil is a good trade-off.

I'm not as concerned as dan about Jap artillery, maybe I haven't used it effectively. The only other HR I would insist on at this point is that Restricted units should NEVER cross a national border, period.

[Canoerebel]

Paramushiro Balance Sheet
 
With the Paramushiro campaign winding down I want to begin tallying the costs and benefits to the Allies.  I'll edit this as additional thoughts occur or as I tally losses, etc.
 
Benefits:
 
1.  Four Japanese BBs sunk (the Kongo class)
2.  The net result of the air campaign has the Japanese losing perhaps 700 more aircraft than the Allies.
3.  Japanese merchant shipping lost - currently estimated at perhaps 60 to 80 ships.
4.  Other Japanese combat ships lost - a few CA/CL/DD.
5.  Japanese focus shifts from DEI to Paramushiro for 3+ months - including all 11 BBs for awhile and KB for that entire period.  This weakens the opposition in the DEI considerably allowing the Allies to seize, hold, and build up bases in the eastern DEI.
6.  Japansese subs diverted to NoPac, freeing up most of the eastern half of the map.
7.  Hard to quantify impact on Japanese logistics and fuel.
 
Costs: 
 
1.  Allies lose four slow BBs plus Warspite.
2.  Allies lose a few CA/CL/DD
3.  Allies lose roughly 150 transports and support ships.
4.  Allies will lose most of the men committed to these invasions (most of an infantry division, three Marine regiments, two army regiments, etc.)

[Q-Ball]

Biggest losses for you are the Ground Units, though if you pulled cadres like you said you did, you'll get them back. But Ground Troops is a limiting factor for the Allies. Losing BBs, even old ones, doesn't help either. The transports and planes you can replace.

For the Japanese, losing all 4 Kongos hurts alot. The planes aren't a huge deal. The pilots might be, but I bet Miller's best cadres were killed off long ago, so probably not. But I hate losing the KONGOS, they are extremely useful ships.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
1.  No strategic bombing in CBI (by either Allies or Axis) until 1944.

I couldn't abide by this as an IJ player.

Restricting strat bombing until 1944 is a giveaway to the allied player who can then steamroll Japanese production at will in 1944 and 1945, after securing air superiority with a surfeit of 4EBs. I think to be fair to both sides, this has to be either a complete restriction of any strategic bombing in or from the CBI or no restrictions at all.

Early on, this strat bombing restriction will benefit the Chinese. Later, it will benefit the Japanese. Give and take. Compromise. Quid pro quo or nothing.

To be honest. Looking at the current state of supply in China, I don't think stragetic bombing in China is much of an option for the Allies player at any time. As it is, I had to move the AVG to India just so I could replace lost aircraft. If the Japanese take Sian and Changsha, there really is not a lot left to produce supply and the heavy bombers take a lot of supply.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I'm not as concerned as dan about Jap artillery, maybe I haven't used it effectively. The only other HR I would insist on at this point is that Restricted units should NEVER cross a national border, period.

Ummm...except for the Indian troops crossing the Burmese border to Akyab?

[khyberbill]

For some reason my transport subs won't load

There are only one or two Allied subs that will load troops in AE. The rest will only load supplies

[Fishbed]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Biggest losses for you are the Ground Units, though if you pulled cadres like you said you did, you'll get them back. But Ground Troops is a limiting factor for the Allies. Losing BBs, even old ones, doesn't help either. The transports and planes you can replace.

For the Japanese, losing all 4 Kongos hurts alot. The planes aren't a huge deal. The pilots might be, but I bet Miller's best cadres were killed off long ago, so probably not. But I hate losing the KONGOS, they are extremely useful ships.

I think the biggest losses instead are the transports. Such heavy loss of shipping will hurt and slow down the advance, especially if AP(A)s and AK(A)s got sunk.

[Canoerebel]

Miller opened a thread about the recent air battle over Adak Island.  The losses he listed (140 dive bombers, I think) are far less than showed in both the combat report (something above 175) and on the Air Losses menu (more than 200).  What I find most interesting is his comment that he won't miss the pilots because they were green.
 
I wonder if this is disinformation, because I don't think Miller's losses have been excessive, and he has maintained a vigorous pilot-training program in China.
 
In even up fights between Japanese and Allied fighters, the Allies usually come out on the short end, sometimes decisively.  Since most Brit pilots have exp. around 70, and most American fighter pilots between 55 and 65, I assume his fighter pilots have experience higher than that.  And I think he has lost far more fighters than naval strike aircraft.
 
The air war game in AE is much different than in WitP - at least for me.  As we approach the end of May 1943 here's the reality I'm dealing with in the Oz/eastern DEI theaters where most of the action is occuring:
 
1.  Not enough planes:  I am always short of every kind of P-38.  I just had three new P-38G squadrons arrive at Townsville - each with two planes out of the 25 authorized.  I can't fill out these squadrons.  I have quite a few Marine F4F units facing the same situation and I don't have enough Corsairs to serve the four squadrons spread over the map.  There are plenty of P-40Ks and P-39s.
 
2.  Green fighter pilots:  As noted, most of my American squadrons at the front avg. experience from 55 to 65.  This isn't that great for this point in the war (at least compared to WitP).  I have squadrons with pilots at 40% and thereabouts training at rear bases. 
 
3.  Green bomber crews:  Most of my 4EB crews at the front avg. experience ranging from about 40 to about 55.  I'm finding it very difficult to get crew experience up, even for the squadrons that are regularly flying unopposed missions against bases like Milne Bay.  Fortunately, the B-24 and B-17 are so tough that they dish out more than they take.
 
4. Two-engine bombers can't stand up to fighters:  Blenheims, B-25s, and B-26s are cannon-fodder when they face fighter opposition.  I try to use them only against undefended targets.
 
5.  It is nealry impossible to use fighters in China, at least more than once:  This is excacerbated by the chronically low supply situation brought about, in part, by Japanese strategic bombing during the first year of the game.  Fighters have short legs.  If you base them far enough forward to fly combat missions, the planes that are damaged when they land don't get repaired (due to no supply).  They never get repaired (due to no supply).  The AVG can only last a short time - few replacements and the squadrons are withdrawn in mid-42 (if memory serves).
 
6.  Carrier CAP is inadequate: From the few attacks we've seen against carriers it seems that CAP claims an unusually low percentage of the attackers so that a high percentage of attackers survives to press home the attack.  Usually, the CAP gets tied up by escorting fighters and does little against the strike aircraft.  It's still early in this regard, and we haven't had many big carrier air battles yet, but this is a concern.  I have F6F Hellcats on Wasp, Saratoga, and Essex, and I hope they perform per history. 

[LoBaron]

Canorebel do I get this right? You are right now swapping navy squads for Corsairs/F6F all over the map and are still short of F4F´s?
Strange.
 
Btw. I think that one of the really important things to watch for is when squadrons arrive that use planes you don´t have in much supply.
 
What about changing some of the P38 squads to P40K? They have a quite ok performance (admittedly short legs) but the main trick
for the allies is to get as many planes in the air as possible.
Numbers first, quality second.
 
What are you using the P38´s for atm?

[SireChaos]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

This is the House Rule that both Q-Ball and I think is fair.  No strategic bombing in CBI helps the Allies by preventing the Japanese from destroying Chinese industry.  It helps the Japanese by preventing the Allies from strategic bombing places like Magwe and Rangoon.

The Japanese can easily wipe out Chinese industry by strategic bombing in '42 and '43, so this rule makes sense.  The ability of the Allies to use Chinese bases for strategic bombing will be severely limited by the supply situation.

I currently have an improvised truce with my opponent to a similar effect: every month of ceasefire in China buys him one month, starting in 4/44, in which I do not base B-29 in China (and do not use them to do strategic bombing in Japan). Bombing anywhere from other places, of course, is fair game.

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: LoBaron
Canorebel do I get this right? You are right now swapping navy squads for Corsairs/F6F all over the map and are still short of F4F´s?
Strange.

Btw. I think that one of the really important things to watch for is when squadrons arrive that use planes you don´t have in much supply.

What about changing some of the P38 squads to P40K? They have a quite ok performance (admittedly short legs) but the main trick
for the allies is to get as many planes in the air as possible.
Numbers first, quality second.

What are you using the P38´s for atm?

That's right. There are a bunch of Marine F4F-3 squadron's whose upgrade paths only include Corsairs - they do NOT include F4F-4s. I have two or three of these sitting in Sydney now and three more parked on CVEs (these three have two fighters each and can only upgrade with Corsairs, but I only have enough Corsairs in the pool to handle the three or four Corsair squadrons currently on the board.

Good idea about swapping P-38s for P-40Ks. The orders have been issued. Pretty soon I'll only have one P-38 squadron left on the map and that's at Chittagong.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: SireChaos

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

This is the House Rule that both Q-Ball and I think is fair.  No strategic bombing in CBI helps the Allies by preventing the Japanese from destroying Chinese industry.  It helps the Japanese by preventing the Allies from strategic bombing places like Magwe and Rangoon.

The Japanese can easily wipe out Chinese industry by strategic bombing in '42 and '43, so this rule makes sense.  The ability of the Allies to use Chinese bases for strategic bombing will be severely limited by the supply situation.

I currently have an improvised truce with my opponent to a similar effect: every month of ceasefire in China buys him one month, starting in 4/44, in which I do not base B-29 in China (and do not use them to do strategic bombing in Japan). Bombing anywhere from other places, of course, is fair game.

What a novel idea...that's quid pro quo in my book.

[Canoerebel]

5/29/43 to 6/1/43
 
NoPac:  The first Japanese deliberate attacks at Paramushiro came off at high odds (4:1) and drops forts to one.  This base will fall to the Japanese in no more than three days, ending the Allied occupation at three months.  The KB withdrew from the Adak Island vicinity.
 
SoPac:  Still no opposition to the Allied landing at Tabiteau, near Tarawa.  I'm mulling over whether to employ the Allied carriers in support of an invasion of Tarawa, or even whether to proceed with the invasion.  Recon shows four units at Tarawa - probably a mixed brigade and some support.
 
SWPac:  A moderate-sized surface combat engagement at Port Moresby.  I'll copy and paste the results below.  I think I came out ahead, but I'm not sure.  While that was going on, BB Royal Sovereign TF hit a slew of barges at Milne Bay, sinking perhaps 50 to 100.  While that was going on, a convoy returning to Noumea from Darwin took a weird route close to New Guinea and got chewed up by Bettys.  The Nagatu/Mutsu TF and Mini-KB haven't made an appearance in the eastern DEI in recent days.  A long range SBD-5 group (range of 11 with drop tanks) based at Saumlaki clobbered three PB at Ambon.  Cursor intel shows that neither Boela nor Sorong on the western New Guinea coast have airbases yet.  I think the Allies may be ready to move that way in a few weeks.
 
Burma:  37 Japanese units at Rangoon, one at Pegu.  Eventually Miller's going to realize I don't have many units up around Meiktila/Mandalay/Schewbo.  Yet he probably can't get too frisky since the Allies do have a building army at Prome.
 
China:  Reshuffling the garrisons continues as the Chinese try to adjust to the loss of Hengyang.

[Canoerebel]

Round One of Naval Combat at Port Moresby:
 
Night Time Surface Combat, near Port Moresby at 98,130, Range 11,000 Yards
 
Japanese Ships
      CA Myoko, Shell hits 2
      CL Jintsu, Shell hits 2
      CL Nagara, Shell hits 2
      CL Natori, Shell hits 2
      DD Asashio
      DD Oshio
      DD Hibiki
      DD Mikazuki, Shell hits 1
      DD Mochizuki, Shell hits 1
      DD Uruyuke, Shell hits 4,  on fire
      DD Kosugiri, Shell hits 3,  on fire
 
Allied Ships
      CA Northampton
      CA Pensacola, Shell hits 2
      CL Tromp, Shell hits 4
      CL Danae, Shell hits 1
      DD Russell, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
      DD Walke
      DD Drayton
      DD Selfridge, Shell hits 2,  on fire
      DD Barker
 
Round Two of Naval Combat at Port Moresby:
 
Day Time Surface Combat, near Port Moresby at 97,131, Range 29,000 Yards
 
Japanese Ships
      CA Myoko, Shell hits 2
      CL Nagara, Shell hits 4
      CL Natori, Shell hits 4,  on fire
      DD Asashio, Shell hits 1
      DD Oshio, Shell hits 2,  on fire
      DD Hibiki
      DD Mikazuki, Shell hits 1,  on fire
      DD Mochizuki, Shell hits 1,  on fire
      DD Uruyuke
 
Allied Ships
      CA Northampton
      CA Pensacola, Shell hits 2
      CL Tromp, Shell hits 3
      CL Danae, Shell hits 4,  on fire
      DD Walke, Shell hits 2
      DD Drayton, Shell hits 1
      DD Selfridge, Shell hits 2
      DD Barker, Shell hits 1,  on fire
 
Number of LB (barges) sunk at Milne Bay:  63.  Question:  Is this something that a Japanese player would even feel?

[Q-Ball]

He can get the barges back in 30 days, and you got no points for them. Probably won't hurt him hardly at all.

37 units at Rangoon, and ONE at Pegu? That's strange. Take Pegu, and Rangoon is cut-off. An airbase at Prome, with an AIR HQ, some Beauforts and Vengence bombers, would make a sea evacuation from Rangoon quite expensive. Can you scrape up enough guys to threaten Pegu? Why don't you build-out Prome, find some planes that can kills ships, then send troops down the Pegu road? Either you will kill lots of ships, or he will retreat to Siam, either one probably works for you.

[Canoerebel]

I'm building the fields at both Prome and Bessien (the latter is a base adjacent, but across-river, from Rangoon).  My hold on these two bases is pretty secure.

Advancing down the road from Mandalay is a weak mishmash of Chinese and Burmese troops.  I have a Japanese unit or two in the rear (up near Myitkyina) and I have to guard against paratroops taking a base and cutting my line of retreat.  I can advance and threaten Pegu, but it would be a force of about 500 AV Chinese.  I'm not sure I want to give Miller a crack at seeing how weak my force is. Time is on my side - as I build up Prome's garrison that will deter Miller from weakening Rangoon by moving troops out toward Mandalay.

Base forces for Prome are on the way from Akyag.  I'll probably have to base fighters there, though, as Miller has a big force of aircraft (200+) at Rangoon.

[Q-Ball]

I am thinking that project is going to take a couple months, both to build the airbases, move in base troops, and also get more troops on the Pegu Road. You should think about buying an Indian Division or two and sending them into Burma to move south. You're ahead of schedule, so you have time to get the forces together.

I agree you don't want to show your hand. If you get another 2-3 divisions on that Axis, and prep them for Pegu, you can rush Pegu and hold it, creating a real problem for Miller.

[Canoerebel]

I've already bought out one Indian division, using it to bolster the garrison at Prome, which sits at about 1000 AV.
 
I currently have about 1300 Political Points.  I need to buy a US Army division that's sitting at San Diego.  Next on my list after that will be another Indian division.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

SoPac:  Still no opposition to the Allied landing at Tabiteau, near Tarawa.  I'm mulling over whether to employ the Allied carriers in support of an invasion of Tarawa, or even whether to proceed with the invasion.  Recon shows four units at Tarawa - probably a mixed brigade and some support.

Hi Canoerebel,

I'm not sure what you stand to gain by risking an amphibious assault into the Gilberts at this stage. Due to your early offensive into the Southern DEI, you've opened up THE front that you're looking for. This sideshow at Tarawa will not help you bring strategic bombing to the HI or destroy Japan's oil supplies.

Congrats on identifying and 'plucking' Tabiteau, but I'd leave well enough alone and redirect your offensive thrust into the soft underbelly of the DEI. The risk that you incur of getting your invasion ambushed and comprehensively destroyed is not worth the strategic gain, IMO.