UV a good idea

EricLarsen · Post by **EricLarsen** » Fri Sep 20, 2002 6:59 pm

I am glad that UV came out to test the game system that will be used in WitP. I'm sure glad we're working out the bugs and tweaks in this game rather than having to do this with WitP. It will be interesting to go to a larger hex scale and time scale after playing at the level in UV. No more daily micromanagement of forces and more hold your breath and watch what happens over a week's time. The UV game sure is fun at this level and maybe some more games with this game system could be done, though it would be tough to find as balanced a struggle as in the South Pacific.
Thanks,

Eric Larsen

Raverdave · Post by **Raverdave** » Fri Sep 20, 2002 7:26 pm

Originally posted by EricLarsen
No more daily micromanagement of forces and more hold your breath and watch what happens over a week's time. The UV game sure is fun at this level and maybe some more games with this game system could be done, though it would be tough to find as balanced a struggle as in the South Pacific.
Thanks,

Eric Larsen

My understanding is that you will still be able to do "Daily turns" and so you should!

pasternakski · Post by **pasternakski** » Fri Sep 20, 2002 7:29 pm

Yep, I'm glad too (Mediterranean theater). I sure hope (Mediterranean theater) the lessons learned in UV (Mediterranean theater) carry over to WITP (Mediterranean theater).

I don't know if there are other (Mediterranean theater) subjects that could be covered by the UV system (Mediterranean theater), but I hope that Matrix/2by3 (Mediterranean theater) are considering some possibilities (Mediterranean theater)....

(lousy attempt at subliminal advertising, ain't it?)

(Mediterranean theater)

DoomedMantis · Post by **DoomedMantis** » Fri Sep 20, 2002 7:50 pm

Imagine what the Med would have been like if the Germans had the Italians ships instead

jules · Post by **jules** » Sat Sep 21, 2002 2:39 am

Keep the ONE day turns in WITP !
Longer turns will affect the way history is simulated. That means all these little task forces will disapear and quick reaction opportunities will disapear. No "Midway" will happen, but lots of "Marianas".
What is that "micromanagement" ? It means management of single sub brigade/Ship/squadron units/weapons to me. It´s not micromanagement when I get the possibility to check my units regularly; and that is in ONE day turns with a day and night pulse.
Everyone who don´t cares about can "play" in bigger steps (like in UV).
If "playability" suffers, give us more statitics, automation options and scenarios but NOT longer turns.

Thanks

Yamamoto · Post by **Yamamoto** » Sat Sep 21, 2002 4:04 am

I for one sure as hell plan to continue playing 1-day turns in WitP. Maybe for TCP/IP I might go to 2-day turns but single player is definitely going to be 1-day turns.

If you enjoy 7-day turns, more power too you. To me, it just seems like you are playing one seventh of the game and the AI is playing the other six sevenths.

Yamamoto

shark · Post by **shark** » Sat Sep 21, 2002 4:58 am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jules
Keep the ONE day turns in WITP !
Longer turns will affect the way history is simulated. That means all these little task forces will disapear and quick reaction opportunities will disapear. No "Midway" will happen, but lots of "Marianas".

I totaly disagree Jules
Midway was a classic Strategic ambush.
1/ Sigint gives warning of Jap strategic intent -such info is strategic intel not in the timescale appropriate for single turn games-but ESSENTIAL to simulate the Pacific Theater.
Such actions happen in the old pac war but cannot happen in UV
2/ US rushes all CVs into position.
3/ Spruance is told where, to be when to expect the Japs, and instructed to go getem.
The rest is history.
If you cant put this into the game you cant simulate War in the Pacific Theater.
Intel such as this has a leed time and it is longer than one day,and hence inaproperiate for a game with a short turn length.
Earley in the war the japs have more of everything and more experience .
The US has to carefuly husband their resources and counterpunch as they did at Coral Sea and Midway.
It is a real cat and mouse game! That stretches the length and breadth of the Pacific!

And 7 day turns are ideal

Mojo · Post by **Mojo** » Sat Sep 21, 2002 5:15 am

I'd play seven day turns if my TF commanders were collectively smarter than a box of rocks. As long as I've got commanders with single digit IQs I'm playing one or two day turns.

pasternakski · Post by **pasternakski** » Sat Sep 21, 2002 5:18 am

On the PROWL, brothas!

Gimme dat gangsta chick wit' da badonkadonk butt, and we's COOL, danks.

(Ah, I mean, I agree with you, gentlemen).

jules · Post by **jules** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 12:16 am

After all Midway was a classic "battle of opportunity". It was practically over after ONE day. Yorktown would probably not be available in SEVEN day turns.
All the things you mentioned (production, intelligence, location of TF, commands, e.t.c.) could be integrated in a one-day-simulation.

jules

Capt Cliff · Post by **Capt Cliff** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 12:53 am

One day turns are for people who don't have lives! You'd never be able to finish a game. Playing against the computer is really only a learing tool, you got play against a human! Playing PBEM on daily turns is nuts! Fill out the divorce papers now guy's!

As for Ultra, for it to work you have to give targets for your HQ, so Ultra can peek in on what the Japanese are planning to do. If you have not targeted something you can't invade it. Create a new TF called a "Attack Transport Task Force" and it only invades hostile shores that have been targeted by a HQ, at least 1 month in advance! That would also kick in the automatic logistic system, which I hope they include, which would add supplies to the base the HQ is currently at. Without a computer aided (AI) logistic system WitP is not playable.

NOW! HIT THE DECK...........IN COMING!!!!!!!!!!!

Yamamoto · Post by **Yamamoto** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 2:30 am

Originally posted by Capt Cliff
One day turns are for people who don't have lives! You'd never be able to finish a game. Playing against the computer is really only a learing tool, you got play against a human! Playing PBEM on daily turns is nuts!

If you want to play 7 day turns, or 30 day turns go right ahead but don’t think for one second that your view of the game is in any way superior to those of us who will play 1-day turns. Hell, why not just play 365 day turns? You could enter your orders and then let the computer play itself using your suggestions.

Some of us prefer a little more ‘hands on’ in our games. Maybe we will just pass our turns a few days in a row when nothing interesting is happening but it’s nice to have the option to enter orders every turn. In fact, I bet many would like 12-hour turns to have a better chance of intercepting the enemy with surface combat groups.

Get off your high horse and accept that not everyone shares your distorted vision of how WitP should be.

Fill out the divorce papers now guy's!

Don’t assume everyone here is married. Another arrogant assumption.

Yamamoto

Luskan · Post by **Luskan** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 3:39 am

The game's engine and formulas are all about a "day/night" period of time. To exclude 1-day turns from WITP would probably require a lot more effort just to leave them in. I am sure the 1 day turn option will be there for those who like it.

AA and I are doing scn 17, and we average 4/5 1-day turns a night, 6/7 over a weekend, and we're both working guys with partners etc. and I fit all of this into my extremely busy schedule no prob.

The element you are missing in 7-day turns is indecision. All the great war-"lords"/"arbitrators" etc, e.g Hitler, Stalin, Churchill, Roosevelt, all had twice daily conferences with thier commanders getting updates from various fronts. Twice a day all of these guys had the option to change their mind, get cold feet, procastrinate, or get over obsessed with the battle in too much detail - platoons and yards, rather than divisions and miles - and loose sight of the big picture/overall objective.

I (like Churchill) often fire off decisive orders/commands 4 or 5 times a "day", with no respect to the careful plan I've laid out, based upon situational knowledge. Often I think "DUMB DUMB DUMB" when I watch my ships sinking because I strayed from my careful plan, like Hitler would have when he ordered the several day interregonum during Barbarossa, or the halt during Sickle Stroke that let the british troops at Dunkirk escape (somewhat).

7 day turns would exclude all of this for me - I may as well just let the computer play itself and I'd just read combat reports (sort of like watching TV really - no interaction).

CommC · Post by **CommC** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 4:44 am

Someone correct me if I am off base here but I don't see how UV can be played with 7-day turns, except in a maintenance mode.

There is no way to communicate the commander's intent to TF commanders. At least in Pac War you can designate an objective for a regional commander.

Even with one day turns in UV, we need a way to give the TF commanders and air group commanders a target or target priorities such as a specific enemy spotted TF, or a priority system such as attack enemy troop transport TFs first, then carriers, but try to avoid contact with carriers but fight back if attacked, etc.

Maybe the anwer is to have the game stop execution when multiple TFs are spotted and ask the player which TF he wants to attack, or which first, or which percentage of force to devote to each target.

pasternakski · Post by **pasternakski** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 5:46 am

it looks to me like we will have the option to go either way. If WITP really uses the UV engine, the one-day turn must be the time span during which all things take place and all calculations and formulae run. I think we will see pretty much the same choices presented in the preferences screen of UV: how many days do you want a turn to consist of? One? Seven? Something in between?

Of course, I could be wrong, but this seems most likely. Matrix? Yoo-hoo! Bump here!

I, for one, agree with Mojo"s "box of rocks" comment. Yet, I can see that many players might want to step back from the day-to-day grind and allow the AI a greater role in carrying out missions and operations over a several-day period.

There's not really much reward in talking about how much of a real life people have who prefer to spend the time wielding tighter control.

It's just a matter of personal preference, IMHO. So game on in the way you prefer! And good hunting to you all...

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 5:58 am

Greetings, WHAT? no hourly turns?.......
Just kidding. As for finishing a game, I don't care how long the game takes as long as it plays well. I think PBEM games might need to last a few (6) months, but so what?

shark · Post by **shark** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 2:16 pm

Originally posted by Luskan
The element you are missing in 7-day turns is indecision. All the great war-"lords"/"arbitrators" etc, e.g Hitler, Stalin, Churchill, Roosevelt, all had twice daily conferences with thier commanders getting updates from various fronts. Twice a day all of these guys had the option to change their mind, get cold feet, procastrinate, or get over obsessed with the battle in too much detail - platoons and yards, rather than divisions and miles - and loose sight of the big picture/overall objective.

The big difference here is that the critical force unit is the carrier striking force. When it is commited it is usually under radio blackout so you cant effect it to closley from fleet HQ once you commit it.
Note how UV wont let the player pick the target for the strikes even if he has spotted the enemy.
When battle is joined one day of CV - CV slugging is plenty of time to get a result. then one or both sides will retire and regroup.
Then HQ gets involved in Blame/credit allocation.
You might say Go here and react to CVs If he waits for one or 5 days before engaging or coming back no big deal provided your opponent has the same limmitations.

I dont think 1 or 7day cycles are mutualy exclusive, but to make 7 day cycles playable The UV system needs a few additions , they wouldnt stop one day cycles, just make 7 day cycles work well enough to do UV justice.
7 days is nice to have in UV,but essential for WitP

and what better way to test it than in UV!!!

Raverdave · Post by **Raverdave** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 2:36 pm

Now hear this, Now hear this!
I will only be playing WiTP with one day turns!
That is all.

EricLarsen · Post by **EricLarsen** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 7:09 pm

I doubt I'll want daily turns in WitP. With 610 turns for a campaign game in UV one can almost finish a campaign game. With WitP and over twice that many possible turns it just makes sense to go to a longer timescale. The map scale will also be bigger and that fits better with a larger timescale. I think weekly turns ought to be good enough so that the game can be finished in one's lifetime.
Eric Larsen

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 7:48 pm

"The big difference here is that the critical force unit is the carrier striking force. When it is commited it is usually under radio blackout so you cant effect it to closley from fleet HQ once you commit it"-Shark

Greetings. A TF or Airgroup under radio silence can still receive messages

UV a good idea

UV a good idea

Re: UV a good idea

What Eric said

jules - Yamamoto - you's ma BOYS!

Don't fret

For better or worse, richer or poorer

??????

Re: Don't fret

Playability