New Map Preview

[Drongo]

Iain,
No patronising now, they look great!!!:)

[Marc von Martial]

you bring your checkbook I know you artistes make mad money.

Where did you hear that rumour?

[Mojo]

Originally posted by Marc Schwanebeck


Where did you hear that rumour?

That's what you have been telling everybody Marc;)

[Marc von Martial]

Originally posted by Mojo


That's what you have been telling everybody Marc;)

Well of course we "earn" mad money, but that doesn´t mean we get it

*assuming "mad money" means "a lot of money" *

[IChristie]

you bring your checkbook I know you artistes make mad money

If, instead you mean that it's madness to try and make money this way - you would be much closer to the Marc... er... Mark

[IChristie]

Mojo

Anytime you want a game you're on. As the course designer I ought to have an advantage. Now, if I could just do something about the 36 handicap I used to have.

Maybe we should include a module in FPG that let's the player click on a golf course to open "Flashpoint Links" so that you can play 18 holes while you wait for the balloon to go up.

[Blackhorse]

The maps look great!

[Mac_MatrixForum]

Very very good.

On the way back from summer house I also paid attention to some fields and I have to agree on the colors . We just don't have that large or nicely laid out squares .

[SwampYankee68]

Boy, these maps look great! If gameplay is as good as the maps, I'd say you have a winner here. Now, What type of unit graphics will there be? Board game style unit markers with NATO symbols and strength numbers, or something more graphic, like a number of vehicles, etc (kind of like Steel Panthers)?

Keep up the great work!

[IronManBeta]

Unit counters are my end of things so I'll try to resond.

There are two unit counter sizes right now. The small ones are just big enough for a classic NATO style military icon plus a tag identifying the unit as, say, 'A/1' for A company, 1st battalion. Bare bones, but it lets you see lots of the map at once, a major consideration when most units have a lethal radius of up to 5 km!

The zoomed in map doubles the size of each location and gives me a lot more room to draw an icon. The tag moves to a vertical position to the right of the icon, a 'unit size' indicator goes at the top (I = company, II = bn, ... = platoon), and down below we have two numbers. The left hand one is the number of 'runners' ie functioning vehicles and/or infantry squads at the moment. The right hand one is a current speed rating where every 5 kph rates as 1 point. It serves as an indication of how mobile the unit is in it's present state (orders, suppression, vehicle mobility, etc). Basically it tells you if the unit is fast or slow... These are 'classic' counters instantly familiar to anyone who has played a wargame.

The big unit counters do have enough room for a very small vehicle silhouette a la Panzerblitz which would be really cool, but is way beyond my artistic abilities. We have so much other art still to do that I am not holding my breath for this one, but long run you never know.

Since we just can't cram all the info we want to onto a counter no matter how we arrange it, there is a 'unit description panel' to the right of the map that goes into much greater detail as to the current state of the unit. The exact number of vehicles that are runners, morale, fatigue, supply, current orders, spotting range, spottable range, etc. Looking at the map counters gives you a quick overview of what is where. Clicking on them to get the unit description panel filled in gives you all the juicy detail. The panel also has a nice big vehicle silhouette at the moment, but I don't know if it will actually stay. Many units are composed of multiple vehicle types and to use just one is a bit of a misrepresentation. The concept is to represent the entire company, not just the principal weapon system. We want something crystal clear that speaks to all gamers though so it can't be too complicated either. Ultimately this is another unresolved art assignment, and therefore the esteemed Marc S's problem....

One of my design issues is that not very many people are going to know, for example, what the heck a M106, M557 or M901 are. (Not to keep you in suspense, they are an M113 with a mortar, a M113 tricked out as a HQ vehicle, and a M113 with a TOW launcher up top. You probably knew that already. You've probably driven one or more of them if you hang out in this forum!) We want this game to be accessable to everyone, so we have our work cut out for us doing it right. Good graphics up front and center with a detailed explanation with pictures in reserve is my best hope for this thorny issue. Keep your fingers crossed for us!

Cheers, Rob.

[Sabre21]

Hi Rob

You're right that many of the guys that hang around here probably know their vehicles pretty well, but have you considered using a look up library maybe. That way someone not too familiar with vehicle types can see a picture and read a little description of what it does.

Sabre21

[SwampYankee68]

Nice Plans, Rob.

I would be willing to wager, however, that MOST (If not all) of the people who buy this game could tell you what all of those vehicles are (To the point of wanting to ask if the M901 is an ITV "hammerhead" or the vanilla "exposed" launcher). I certainly understand the constraints that you have explained. Even though I consider myself somewhat of a hardcore wargamer, I must admit a preference for a graphical "top down" unit icon, with the compleat description on a bar at the bottom or side of the window (ala Talonsoft's Campaign series). The icon could be of two or three AFVs, or some troops, etc.

Having said that, your plans are acceptable, and I am very excited about the game.

Thanks for the quick response.

[SwampYankee68]

Those are always cool to have, especially if they have some good pics of the units. I wonder how many of us have books on armor and weapons close by the computer desk, though!

[Sabre21]

Hi Swamp Yankee

Where u at in CT..I'm near New Haven in Ansonia:) I'm sure there are plenty of wargamers that don't have as good of ID capability as some of the hardcore gamers here.

But here is a real good trivia question. How can you tell the difference between the M901 TOW vehicle and the FSTV variant used for calling in arty? There is an external difference, and a noticable one too if you know what you are looking for. That was how I could pick out our FSO when we were on the move.

See below for answer

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:

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The FSTV variant had 4 large radio antenaes compared with the 2 found on the M901. Pretty easy to spot actually:)

Sabre21

[SwampYankee68]

I'm up in Vernon, actually (east of Htfd on I-84). I was an FO in a straight leg CTARNG unit (1/102 on Goffe St in New Haven, actually) so you got me on the quiz, but I remember playing SSI's Mech Brigade and changing the FO unit to an M901ITV to make it "more realistic". I have a ton armor / aircraft books from WWII to present, and now my 13 year old reads them! I am creating a genetically enhanced uber-wargamer!

[IChristie]

Bump for the map screenies

[IronManBeta]

Originally posted by Sabre21
Hi Rob

You're right that many of the guys that hang around here probably know their vehicles pretty well, but have you considered using a look up library maybe. That way someone not too familiar with vehicle types can see a picture and read a little description of what it does.

Sabre21

I do indeed have just such a thing roughed in. I consider it essential but the downside is that we now need to collect graphics for all those different weapons sytems - and thats not my department.... The graphics all have to look related i.e. you can't mix colour shots with black and white, photos with line drawings, etc. You have to pick a style and stick to it. We don't want have to have to draw them all by hand, but finding an outside source that has absolutely everything to our satisfaction is non-trivial too.

The facility is there and we will evaluate it as a business proposition later on. Perhaps in the alternative we could print it up in the rules or even just refer them on to a killer website or two to see for themselves. There are some good ones out there. Remember that this is supposed to be a low cost game so that limits our own budget somewhat. OTOH, hopelessly confusing all the new players with these specialist nomenclatures would not be an optimal strategy either!

Steel Panthers has a weapon dictionary and my impression is that Matrix found it to be something of a pain in the butt. No matter what you put into it, somebody somewhere will quibble with it and make you feel bad. Our emphasis in this game is on the _processes_ involved on the battlefield - not the numbers - and a detailed weapon dictionary might give the opposite impression.

When we see how the whole thing comes together we will be in a better position to decide.

Cheers, Rob.

[SwampYankee68]

Fo those of us with broadband an in- game link to a website would be easy. Personally, from wargames I have come to expect mismatched photos, especially of the "red" equipment, so it wouldn't bother me. I know of a website that has great info and pics of all sorts of military equipment, I could send you the link and then you could see what they would want in return for the use of their pics.....

[IronManBeta]

I found a couple of good sites - the problem is keeping track of the bookmarks to them! These are the ones I have handy at this location:

Weapons and Equipment of the Former Soviet Union: http://www.galope.com/mike/frames.htm

Soviet Army.com: http://www.sovietarmy.com/

Russian Warrior: http://www.russianwarrior.com/STMMain.htm

My fave: Federation of American Scientists: www.fas.org

Soviet Equipment Guide: http://hometown.aol.com/threatmstr/


OK, I've shown you mine - will you show me yours?

Off to a party, Rob.

[SwampYankee68]

You already had the best - http://www.fas.org/

Looks like you are all set, and remember what I said about most of us wargamers being used to mixed photo types! As long as there is something.