Operation Barbarossa - Alpha AAR

[Captain B]

ORIGINAL: Sentinel Six

ORIGINAL: elmo3

The Finns have moved about as far as they can go for now (turn 12) so I'll only show this area again if something interesting happens.

Elmo,

Can German units based in Finnish territory attack across the Finnish No Attack Line?

Elmo, do you need to convert the rails to be able to supply the Finnish units at the northern appoaches to Leningrad? Thanks.

Rich B>

[Captain B]

Elmo, oh to be so close and be told to retreat and try again...sort of like a Scooby-Doo ending?

[:D]You should have pulled a Patton on the developers (Bradley). Have taken Moscow (Trier) with two divisions, do you want me to give it back? and then went on and smashed the heart of the city!

Oh well, looking forward to Take 2.

Rich B>[;)]

[elmo3]

ORIGINAL: Captain B

Elmo, do you need to convert the rails to be able to supply the Finnish units at the northern appoaches to Leningrad? Thanks.

Rich B>

It's not necessary as the HQ's are close enough to a railhead already, but it doesn't hurt. You can see the AI has a couple of rail repair units doing conversion in the screen shot. It will probably help to have the railheads closer when blizzards come although they don't impact the Finns as they do the Germans.

[elmo3]

OK it's dejavu all over again.  Rewind to the end of the Axis part of turn 10 and install the update and hotfix.  Let the Soviet AI play it's half of turn 10 to see if they are playing smarter.  Here is the Axis part of turn 11.

Nothing to report in Finland.  AGN is following the same plan as last time:  breakout across the Luga River and head for Leningrad.

[elmo3]

Things unfolded quite differently on AGC's front this time around.  Last time you may recall we made two solid pockets and took an undefended Vyazma this turn.  We did take a defended (one infantry division) Vyazma but it took a stack of three divisions to do it and that kept us from forming both pockets.  Instead we were only able to form one loose pocket that the Soviets might be able to break out from in their part of the turn.  This was also due in part to them better defending the section of the line northeast of Smolensk that was very weak last time.

[elmo3]

AGS again got a foothold on the east bank of the Dnepr as last time around.  What I'm looking for here is to see if the AI will stay and defend Kiev or pull back.  Neither choice is necessarily wrong but a player would probably be inclined to stay and make the Germans bleed to take the city.

[elmo3]

Taking a slightly different approach on the Rumanian front.  We'll move 11th Army (purple) further north and attempt to assault across the Yuzhny Bug where it is a minor, not a major, river and then swing southeast from there.

[elmo3]

Nuts.  Either I left one hex in Soviet control or the AI opened a supply line to the pocket on it's part of turn 11.  Looks like we'll have to fight them the old fashioned way and bludgeon them.  We don't have time to form another pocket and wait another turn for them to be isolated.

[elmo3]

Losses through turn 11:

[Neal_MLC]

This pure torture

[freeboy]

two ?
Supply is obviously a huge part of the game..
can you discuss both air issues.. interdiction of supplies and air ressuply?
 
Does the game support a map mode that indicates levels of supply , obviously with FOW it shold be for hex one controls?
 
ok third ?
 
If the enemy has a small or narrow corridor open to get supplies.. can we interdict these specific hexes?
 
Thanks and keep up the great work.. cannot wait for a red army aar!

[elmo3]

There is no air interdiction of supplies.  You do have a limited ability to resupply units by air.  There is no on-map supply mode.  However there is a hotkey to see isolated units, units more than 50 MP from a railhead, and units getting beachhead supply.

[bosbes]

Keep coming with those AAR's; it definitely wets my appetite!

[B455]

ORIGINAL: Zort

Great AAR. But one thing that is always surprising is everyone wants to not have Hitler/Stalin restrictions but don't really complain about the Finns and their stop line. Understand the historical limitations to the Finns but the historical limitations to both the sovs and axis then should apply too imo. I figure the designers won't change it but how about an option for no Finn restriction that will keep the sovs honest and not just leave weak units on the stop line.

Yes something needs to be done to this. It's totally gamey if Soviets just retreat in Karelia and man the "stop-line" with very weak units. It won't create historical circumstances of the battle of Leningrad at all. Actually, why even include the Finnish front if it has no meaning in the game?

[Muzrub]

ORIGINAL: B455

ORIGINAL: Zort

Great AAR. But one thing that is always surprising is everyone wants to not have Hitler/Stalin restrictions but don't really complain about the Finns and their stop line. Understand the historical limitations to the Finns but the historical limitations to both the sovs and axis then should apply too imo. I figure the designers won't change it but how about an option for no Finn restriction that will keep the sovs honest and not just leave weak units on the stop line.

Yes something needs to be done to this. It's totally gamey if Soviets just retreat in Karelia and man the "stop-line" with very weak units. It won't create historical circumstances of the battle of Leningrad at all. Actually, why even include the Finnish front if it has no meaning in the game?

That is a very good point- its neither here, nor there, so why bother?

[ComradeP]

its neither here, nor there, so why bother?

Because people will complain even more if the entirety of the Finnish front is missing, rather than "only" the northern/Murmansk part.

The Finnish front does have a meaning in the game, as the Finns can move further if Leningrad is captured and the front isn't an automatic stalemate. The only major problem is that the Soviets have no reason to garrison their border currently, as a handful of 1 point battalions on the Soviet side of the border/no-attack line can stop the entire Finnish army.

[Muzrub]

Because people will complain even more if the entirety of the Finnish front is missing, rather than "only" the northern/Murmansk part.

Indeed people will complain, and will always complain of how the Finnish front is handled in the game. But this was also an issue in WIR- "why can't Murmansk be included" (was the catch cry).

Anyway to get back on point (WIR being a different game), why not include Murmansk- if the Finnish front is worth doing, its worth doing properly.

[elmo3]

Guys.  I already asked once for people not to use my AAR thread to debate what is or is not included with regard to Finland.  There are other threads for that.  Thanks.

You were right Pavel.

[SGHunt]

OK Elmo - GROFAZ expects great things after his 'dream' of capturing Stalin cowering in the cellars of the Kremlin.

Any change in your operational plans for AGC, or is the intention to repeat as far as possible the same straight thrust to see what the AI does this time?  

It will be interesting to see what happens around Kiev, as it seemed that the Soviet withdrawal made sense here - maybe a partial withdrawal with a strong garrison fighting to the death, as at Brest Litovsk, would be the best tactic?   Bleed the Germans in a fortified position without losing too many divisions to encirclement.   (Any supply benefits for being cut off in a major city?)

Fascinating to see the workings of an Alpha test here.

Stuart

[elmo3]

AGC will continue to push toward Moscow.  Kiev is better defended this time as you will see in a while.  Being in a city (and I use that term loosely here) has benefits to the Germans when the weather is bad but I don't think there are specific supply benefits to either side.  Will have to check the manual to say for sure though.