Problem saving a cadre that will become a parent unit

[Local Yokel]

I recently lost the 143rd IJN Base Force due to the Allied invasion of Abemama (CHS SCenario 157). The remnants on the attoll were wiped out by attrition. I had previously evacuated what I had though would be a sufficient cadre from this unit to reconstitute it after the original force was eliminated. The cadre force was referred to as something like "143rd/1 IJN Base Force", and it was safely located on another base in the Marshalls when the parent unit was eliminated.

When the parent unit was destroyed, I had expected the cadre fragment to assume its identity, so giving me a basis for rebuilding it. But it merely remained "143rd/1 IJN Base Force", and worse, I am no longer able to access it to see what it contains - instead I get the details of another unit at the base where the cadre is located.

So it appears that for this unit at least I have no way of ever rebuilding it, and I'm anxious to avoid a repeat of this. Can anyone please tell me what requirements a cadre needs to satisfy in order for it to become a rebuildable parent unit when the original parent unit gets destroyed?

[hermanhum]

I've run into the same problem in one situation.  I had a unit broken down into two transports and one was sunk.  The one carrying the "143rd IJN Base Force" was sunk and the one carrying the "143rd/1 IJN Base Force" survived.  However, it would never re-build itself.  I think that you must have the one that is not considered the 'fragment' (i.e. the one with the /1 suffix) in order for it to re-constitute itself.

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: Local Yokel

I recently lost the 143rd IJN Base Force due to the Allied invasion of Abemama (CHS SCenario 157). The remnants on the attoll were wiped out by attrition. I had previously evacuated what I had though would be a sufficient cadre from this unit to reconstitute it after the original force was eliminated. The cadre force was referred to as something like "143rd/1 IJN Base Force", and it was safely located on another base in the Marshalls when the parent unit was eliminated.

When the parent unit was destroyed, I had expected the cadre fragment to assume its identity, so giving me a basis for rebuilding it. But it merely remained "143rd/1 IJN Base Force", and worse, I am no longer able to access it to see what it contains - instead I get the details of another unit at the base where the cadre is located.

So it appears that for this unit at least I have no way of ever rebuilding it, and I'm anxious to avoid a repeat of this. Can anyone please tell me what requirements a cadre needs to satisfy in order for it to become a rebuildable parent unit when the original parent unit gets destroyed?

There are hundreds of places in the code containing fragment logic. I guess this code was written before the "modular code" concepts became popular. In WITP we have fixed many of these places but not all. In AE we are using a different system for managing fragments - though it is still not truly modular (i.e. using c++ classes). So for WITP, it will essentially feel like "luck of the draw". If the parent swapping routine is being called at the right time - then the parent will be substituted - otherwise it will not.

Actually, play wise, I'm not sure it is a bad thing. I look at it like "punishment" for trying to exploit the "sampling" loophole [:)]. So just consider that sometimes the unit will be rebuildable and sometimes it will not.

So far, in AE, I have not seen this problem happen - well at least not since release - but that doesn't mean it won't. We will rely on 100s of calls being done correctly from 100s of places.

[hermanhum]

I've come across another problem that seems similar.  I divided a a number of division-sized ground units into their component (3) sub-units.  When I move some of the sub-units back into the same hex, they re-combine into the larger unit.  However, there is one instance whereby the three sub-units are in the same hex and refuse to re-combine into the parent unit.

Is this the same problem mentioned by the OP?  Is there any way to force the sub-units to re-combine?  I've tried to do it manually but it doesn't offer me an option to re-unite the three sub-units.

[tocaff]

I have the same problem with a Japanese division in China.  I divided it early on and now I have the 3 sub units in the same city, but nothing.  All of the units have the same hardware so they match in that respect, but no option to recombine shows and they don't do it automatically.  Why?

[Local Yokel]

Thanks for all your responses.

Joe, I understand the implications of what you say. I became an enthusiast of object-oriented programming some years ago, even though my attempts at it were pretty pathetic.

I take a rather different view from you about whether or not fragmentation is bad from the playing viewpoint, as a chance failure to save a buildable cadre would be all very well provided you also had the ability to disband those that could not be rebuilt and return the rump to the pool. Having a fragment that can't even be inspected in the conventional way is, however, an unduly harsh penalty upon those who attempt rescue of their troops.

A further search on this topic suggested that if the parent is wiped out by attrition then the fragment won't be capable of rebuilding. Seems like a good reason to mount a banzai charge shock attack by the parent in an attempt to ensure it gets eliminated in battle rather than by some 'administrative' aspect of the code.

Tocaff, have you checked that your three sub-units have the same objective? If they don't then that might be a reason for you being unable to re-combine them.

[hermanhum]

ORIGINAL: Local Yokel

Tocaff, have you checked that your three sub-units have the same objective? If they don't then that might be a reason for you being unable to re-combine them.

I had the same situation and checked the objective for my three sub-units. All are the same. No luck there, but it never hurts to think outside of the box. [8D]

[jwilkerson]

Actually the "can't rebuild from broken down sub-units" is different - this has to do with inability to align devices across the component units when some devices have upgraded and this problem still exists in AE.

If you break down for longer periods of time - the probability that you can recombine later will diminish.

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: Local Yokel
A further search on this topic suggested that if the parent is wiped out by attrition then the fragment won't be capable of rebuilding.

But actually like most such statements - this is not always true. For instance, I personally "fixed" one instance of this problem where attrition death of a parent caused all ship borne fragments to be sent to hex (0,0) - one of many dozens of "disappearing unit" issues.

All I can say is that if the code (which exists in hundreds of places) calls the parent swap routine - then the parent will be swaped - if not - then it will not be. Further generalizations are not possible.

[Local Yokel]

Ah well, just one of those things on which you takes your chances - thanks for clarifying.