Attn: Japanese Economics Ministers

[ny59giants]

Now that I have my second PBEM going as Japan, I'm looking to see if some of the more serious economic minister have a comprehensive spreadsheet for their resource, oil, and fuel convoys. It would have the best ships to use for a port at game start and then when the port is at max. Which bases are their hubs before transporting back to Japan. It would cover most of the bases Japan captures and if the economic assets are intact. Some of the large transports can carry mixed loads, so they help. All I have is what I got from Mike Solli. [&o]

It would help me and any other novice Japanese players maximize their economic resources.

Thanks!!

[Mike Solli]

Now that I've played a couple of game months of AE, I'd make some changes to this, making it much simpler.  Here we go by region:

Sakhalin

All the stuff flows to Shikuka.  Don't bother with Toyohara because there is never more than a day's worth of resources there.  The 3x 1250 ton TKs are fine. Alternatively, it might be worth using Yusen N xAKs for this route.  They can carry 300 oil along with the 5795 resources per trip to free up the 3 TKs for other missions.

Shikoku

This works well as is.

Hokkaido

Everything flows to Hakodate.  I'd use 2 TFs for this to move the resources to Ominato.

Kyushu

Everything seems to flow by itself to Honshu.  I'm still testing this to be sure though.

C/M/K

I'll now use just Pt. Arthur, Shanghai and Fusan.  Fusan and Shanghai are good per the spreadsheet.  I think the Yusan N class is good for Pt. Arthur to haul the resources and oil to Honshu.

[Mike Solli]

Duplicate.

[ny59giants]

What about the SRA (Java, Sumatra, Borneo)?? Add in Naura Island, Ocean, northern Australia, and Burma.

[SqzMyLemon]

Mike, what about Keijo, that seems to be a stable and quick route for a few resource TF's.

[Mike Solli]

If you follow my AAR, you'll know I haven't liberated most of the SRA.  Actually, I'm beginning to believe that you need to haul as many resources as you can to Honshu.  Once Japan is isolated, all you get is the immediate surroundings, and that will be very dangerous.  I say, haul it back as fast as you can, because the waters only get more dangerous.

I haven't worked out specifics yet.  That's something I need to do.  I'm out of town next week.  Maybe then to give me something to do.

Here's what my solution is. There are >600 Std-A through -F hulls built throughout the war.  Convert every one of them to TKs.  I'll work on how much capacity that is next week.  That'll give you plenty of TKs to move oil and fuel.

Summatra

This is easy.  Move to Singapore and then from there to your hub(s) and on to the Home Islands (HI).  Small TKs to Singapore and large TKs from there on.  Build the TFs the max size to fit in the smallest port at that leg.  I really like the Tonan Whalers, but they have 2 problems.  1 - they work best in large ports and 2 - there are only 5 of them.  They carry resources and oil at the same time so they work best from a hub that receives oil and resources to the HI.

Java

You really don't get a lot out of Java.  Monthly, you get 7500 oil, 50k fuel, 39k resources and 15k supply.  The supply will pretty much get used up.  The rest can easily be hauled out with some converted TKs and a few xAKs.  Larger ones can be used because of the size of the ports.  I'd consider one big one a month and have it move directly to the HI and back.  If one doesn't work, then 2 a month would do it nicely.

Borneo

This will take a bit of planning.  These 3-4 ports (I'm still not convinced anything needs to come out of Brunei) need to be planned for, mainly to make sure you don't lose any fuel to max storage.  These ports will need multiple convoys, each dedicated to that port.  I am convinced they need to move to a hub.  The hub ideally should have a larger port, so stuff can come in and move out at the same time. 

Nauru & Ocean Islands

These ports produce a large amount of resources.  I like the Kisos for these islands.  They can load in a turn and be on their way.  Some people will claim that we shouldn't waste fuel on these bases.  I'm not sure.  These bases will be cut off or retaken relatively soon so I say, get what you can as soon as you can.  If you want to increase the speed at which you load resources, dump a shipping engineer regiment on them.  Then you can use larger cargos thus saving fuel.  You run the risk of losing that unit if the base is taken though.

Australia

I haven't looked closely at what Australia offers.  I assume we'd have to send supply there.  If so, we may as well fill the cargo ships with resources on the way back.  Gonna have to look at that soon.

Burma

Burma is ultimately a lost cause.  Eventually, the Allies will bomb Burma's industry into the stone age.  Until that happens, I'd try to sneak in a steady stream of tiny TFs (1-2 cargo ships) with supply and haul out fuel.  Maybe even try to send in the occasional Std-E or -F (the really small ones) TKs to get some fuel or oil, if there's a surplus of oil.

You'll notice I haven't made any comments about hubs.  There are obvious hubs, but I don't want to mention where I'm planning on using hubs in case my opponent decides to be snoopy. [:-]

[Mike Solli]

Duplicate.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Mike, what about Keijo, that seems to be a stable and quick route for a few resource TF's.

I thought Keijo would be the really tough port to move resources, but most of their resources move to Hakodate. You'll notice the same amount of resources at Keijo every day. Odd, don't you think? TFs moving between Honshu and Keijo are awfully exposed. Hakodate to Ominato is short and sweet. Very protected. Put an ASW TF in each port and the TFs there are pretty secure.

[Mike Solli]

Duplicate.

[Q-Ball]

Good information! Didn't know about Shikuka. I'll cancel my runs to Toyohara then.

I'm not sold on hauling alot of resources from the SRA. Now, any AK heading to the Home Islands will be filled with Resources before going home, THAT I am sold on; try not to move anything empty. I'll even move it to just Manila or something like that if that's as far as the convoy is going before turning around, just to get it closer to Home.

You will have supplies being hauled out to SRA from Home; certainly, all those convoys should have Resources for the return trip

I am also not convinced that late in the game you have to keep up 100% with the Resource Burn rate. I don't think you quite need all the supplies that the Home Islands produced; turn off some Light Industry, and it will be easier to keep-up.

The late game will be interesting; so far, I don't think fuel is going to be a major problem, but we'll see.

[SqzMyLemon]

Mike, I think you were thinking of Kushiro not Keijo, Keijo is in Korea and generates a 40k+ amount of resources a day I think. I'm starting to send all my little 795 ton transports to the Philippines to gather up all the resources on the smaller islands for transport to Manilla.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Mike, I think you were thinking of Kushiro not Keijo, Keijo is in Korea and generates a 40k+ amount of resources a day I think. I'm starting to send all my little 795 ton transports to the Philippines to gather up all the resources on the smaller islands for transport to Manilla.

Yup, that's it, Lemon. Thanks! [:D]

[String]

Btw, the resources flow to the biggest connected port, so if you develop up another base above the previous hub then you have to switch convoys.

[Rainer79]

Regarding resource convoys from the SRA, I do haul as many resources as I can get my hands on to the HI. While China + Manchuko + the northern islands can supply the needed resources to run the industry at the current level, you won't be able to build up much of a surplus relying on them alone. At least in '42 the SRA convoys will be a lot safer than later into the war and I'd rather find out that you have too many resources in the endgame than suffering from a shortage.

I do like the idea of switching off LI at a controlled rate later in the game to let the industry last longer very much though.

[Q-Ball]

Note on Burma: I have NOT observed Oil and Fuel flowing to Rangoon. Looking at Burma proper, it seems to be disappearing!

However, I have noticed Fuel accumulating at Bankok, Camranh, etc. Is the fuel and Oil being moved overland from Burma?

No complaints at all if that's happening, much more convenient actually, but want to confirm. But for whatever reason, it's not pooling in Rangoon or Magwe.

[CapAndGown]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Note on Burma: I have NOT observed Oil and Fuel flowing to Rangoon. Looking at Burma proper, it seems to be disappearing!

However, I have noticed Fuel accumulating at Bankok, Camranh, etc. Is the fuel and Oil being moved overland from Burma?

No complaints at all if that's happening, much more convenient actually, but want to confirm. But for whatever reason, it's not pooling in Rangoon or Magwe.

The fuel and oil are moving to Singapore in my game. Which is nice since its a big port and more sheltered from subs. Resources are flowing to Singapore too.

[offenseman]

A few notes regarding some of these posts:

Mike, I am convinced that Brunei can be ignored. It seems the oil must move in barrels through the jungle on donkeys or something, because Brunei never has a surplus and Miri always has more than it can possibly produce on its own. Nice and convenient!

I agree with you on Burma.  Take it, build fort levels and use it to delay an advance to the real gems of that part of the world.  Short of molesting India, it can come under 4-e bomber attack far too soon; certainly before any effective anti-4e bomber fighters can get to the area in decent numbers. And even then....... its tough.

I have also noted oil/res being stockpiled in Singapore.  I have not done the math to see if it is simply what is being produced locally or not but it seems to be more than that.  Like Q-Ball, I also do not see oil/fuel flowing to Rangoon. 

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: offenseman

I have also noted oil/res being stockpiled in Singapore.  I have not done the math to see if it is simply what is being produced locally or not but it seems to be more than that.  Like Q-Ball, I also do not see oil/fuel flowing to Rangoon. 

Why do you think that resources aren't just pooling there from the Malay peninsula production? IIRC, Kuala Lumpur is a size 100 resource center just a few hexes north from Singapore. Surely that's where it's stockpiling?

[USSAmerica]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Note on Burma: I have NOT observed Oil and Fuel flowing to Rangoon. Looking at Burma proper, it seems to be disappearing!

However, I have noticed Fuel accumulating at Bankok, Camranh, etc. Is the fuel and Oil being moved overland from Burma?

No complaints at all if that's happening, much more convenient actually, but want to confirm. But for whatever reason, it's not pooling in Rangoon or Magwe.

If fuel and oil are moving this way, it's great for Japan, but stinks for the Allies. It's much harder for Japan to pull these out of Rangoon without being attacked. Also, this would mean the fuel/oil/resources, etc must be moving through the jungle via the dirt roads/trails.

[Marcus_Antonius]

Question:

It occurs to me (about a month into my first PBEM), that its a good idea to take as much of the load off of the Japanese merchant fleet as you can.

I haven't heard this discussed in the forums, but has anybody tried the alternative Japanese development strategy of investing in industry development in the locations where the resources start?

Why not consume more of the resources at the point of origin and reduce the load the merchant marine has to bear?

Expand local light industries so you can convert resources directly to supply and build refineries to convert oil directy to fuel. Also pump up the heavy industries outside the Home Islands where possible. HI points don't need transport and supplies and fuel are more efficiently moved than rescources and oil. Decentralizing the Japanese economy as much as poissbke would seem to be the way to go.

No?