UK Inf Bde Support Weapons

[Lieste]

I note a severe lack of MMG within the UK infantry Bde structures:

UK Inf Bn has only LE and Bren (800m) within the Line Companies. The 3" mortar is 2500m range. There are no MG companies within the Bn, or within the Bde force structure.

Aus/NZ have 12 MMG (3000m) within the Bn line companies. In addition the Bde template has an MG company with 12MMG (48MMG total).

This doesn't sound correct, I'm not really very knowledgeable about early war UK force structures, but this seems astonishingly poor for the UK version - [X(]

Does anyone have suggestions for good Orbat for the Commonwealth forces in the early war period?

Niehorster shows 48 MMG per Division held at Corps level for 'British and Dominion' 1940

[Arjuna]

David,
In general we use Joslen's Order of Battle Second World War 1939-45 Part 1. This shows the 1941 Div estab has 48 MMGs and that accords with the ANZAC estabs you mentioned above. I don't have time right now to look up the COTA estabs for the Brits but IIRC we did denude the estabs used for Crete, stripping out a lot of heavy weapons as these were lost in the evacuations from Greece. The poor sods were dumped on Crete and told to defend it with precious little in the way of heavy weapons.

[Lieste]

Ah thanks for that, I'll see if I can lay hands on a copy of them.

This is still the case with the 1941 (NA) orbat/template though - any Cretan inadequacy should have been (partially at least) made up by Battleaxe?

[Lieste]

Hmm, I'm not sure I agree after all...

I've found several references to differing organisation, but the standard 'early' one was no organic MMG (all brigaded into the MG regiments), MMG support was attached one battalion per Division although these attachments were pseudo-permanent. This is 48 guns per Division, or per 3 Brigades (ie 12 per Brigade and one 'spare' company of 12 as a reserve?).
There are a few oddities - divisions or brigades that had no attached MMG battalion, but retained organic MMG platoons within the line battalions - KRRC, Grenadier Guards and The Rifle Brigade, plus 1st and 6th AB Divisions.

Later in the war the divisional MG Battalion was revised and held three 12 gun companies plus a 4.2" Mortar company of 16 tubes.


ANZAC Infantry battalions were apparently authorised to add an MG platoon of 6 guns "in mid 1942". This suggests an absence of these weapons in 1941? This may of course also only reflect a re-organisation of the MG assets within the Division - the 48 guns of the MMG Battalion being distributed to eight of the 9 Bn, with an additional 6 guns being brought up to supply the 9th Bn (if it hadn't been disbanded for lack of line strength?)
Even if the 54 guns are an addition to the existing MMG Bn, the Divisional total cannot be more than 102 guns.



The COTA ANZAC template is showing 36 organic guns per Brigade, plus an additional battalion of MG at division - this is 108 organic weapons, with another 4 companies of 12 guns at division level... a total of 156 guns.

[Lieste]

A new Scenario, Forces AUS 6th Infantry Division from the force template:

Total Estab Strength (100% forces, summary of HVY weapons only & includes 3 'missing' companies from line Bn)
493 Bren
156 Vickers
144 2" Mortars
18 3" Mortars
68 2pdr (not including those within HQ Sqn 3RTR)
72 25pdr

Reported Strength from Scn Maker (actual unit strength modified by prior losses - from observation also post-rout strength if no further losses are taken prior or during)
384 Bren
109 Vickers
91 2" Mortar
9 3" Mortar
50 2pdr
69 25pdr

With the unit arriving as a reinforcement, the initial impression is that the current holdings are close to the 100% strength values, except for rifles, unless the unit strength is very depressed.
Most Infantry Companies are showing 9 Bren, 3 Vickers and 4 2" Mortars, while the 'common' value during scn creation using the stock values was reported as 7-8 Bren, 2 Vickers and 3 2" Mortar.
I'll browse the OB to find the 'at start' current strengths, but even the low value is well above the nominal 48 MMG per division we appear to agree is the British and Dominion 'standard'.

Actually present:
876 Thompson SMG
8240 Lee Enfield
242 Boys ATR
441 Bren LMG (including the 6 Bren Carriers in the Fd Art Btys)
141 Vickers MMG
122 2" Mortar
18 3" Mortar
51 2pdr
72 25pdr

Of the 'missing' 15 Vickers from the 'full estab' 9 are within the 3 companies not present (A2/6, B2/6, A2/4), and the remainder (6) are in 2/8 which is at ~20% strength.



In contrast COTA's 1 Amd Bde UK, has no Vickers MMG present, although the KRRC was one of the formations designated as Motor Battalions to Armoured Brigades and retained it's own organic MMG platoon (carried by a carrier platoon).

There should be one MG company (with Hvy Mortar (4.2"?) and Flame platoons) in the divisional supports - intended for the support of the Infantry Brigade, and the organic MMG platoon within KRRC Bn of the Amd Bde - a total of 16 Vickers MMG (12 in three platoons at Div, and 4 with KRRC Motor Rifle Bn)

[Lieste]

Interestingly the Heer formations seem pretty close to the 1941/42 TOE.

The battalion MG company has been broken down and attached to the infantry companies, which is possibly incorrect, as the typical usage of artillery, MMG and AT assets was supposed to be en-mass at the point of decision. The divisional total of 120 sMG34 is fully supported by the TOE however, and the 505 MG34 (LMG) are only questionable in detail where the supporting arms might have a slightly exaggerated allocation.

The slightly more cumbersome 1939 TOE had fewer infantry squads (of a larger size) and therefore fewer of the LMG version of the MG34, but had even more of the sMG34 allocated.

Definitely puts 'you might get 48 vickers, if you are lucky' into stark perspective [X(]

[Lieste]

I've adjusted a copy of Bridges at Lamia, retaining the company strengths as much as possible, but removing the line company MMG from 2/4 and 2/8 - I've also split 2/3Fd into 5.2/3Fd and 6.2/3Fd Batteries to allow a bit more flexibility of suppressive fires, and the option of direct fires by one battery while the other remains in indirect fire mode.

Artillery strength remains the same, but the Australian infantry firepower is reduced to 80-85% at close range, 50% at LMG ranges (500-800m) and 33% at ranges above 2400m - between 800 and 2400m the 3" mortars provide some additional support to the single MMG company, but overall firepower is only about 40% of the original... Which makes the importance of the 2 NZ Cav and elements of 2/8Fd RAE and 2/3Fd RAA even higher than in the stock scenario - it also makes the Greeks less like poor cousins - they are now equipped about as well as the Australians, and only suffer from lower training and inexperience.

After analysing the new Bn and Bde firepower relationships to the German defenders, I think that the bridges should fall relatively easily still, but the drive out of the bridgehead is likely to be much slower and harder, and casualties will be much higher... Look for a new AAR soon(ish).