AI little to determined?

[Misconduct]

My game has been pushing into March 42 of my first campaign IronMan, and i'm sure this has been nagged on before like a wife, but why does the AI become so determined to take a base that it expends all its resources doing it? For my game as an example I decided on a do or die campaign to save Java and keep the supply lines opened to India, the KB has been devistated with only 3 carriers left for Japan without a single loss to me. I gave up Palenbang just because the AI spent enough already trying to take it, and now they are after Batavia which has cost well over 78 ships to count. I want to simply pull out of Java but at this point not sure if I should simply restart all together since the Japanese fleet is horribly decimated right now. I'm considering restarting my game so I can shift those units to either Darwin or DEI campaign so the Japanese AI can have some success and have Orphan Ann come on the radio for an actual japanese victory instead of the typical horrible defeat its had. Any thoughts?

[TulliusDetritus]

To hold (Java, Singapore, etc.) or massacre the Japanese AI that early, I guess you have deployed units in an ahistorical fashion... maybe Australian brigades, British and American regiments or divisions were sent to the Dutch East Indies? Along with tons of air and naval units (I mean, units which were NOT historically assigned to the defence of Java, etc.)? [;)]

The AI has been improved but it is NOT a chess master. Such "tactics" simply destroy, break the AI. In fact, you are shooting your own foot. The AI simply goes crazy... GAME OVER...

I don't do that, I use what was used historically and the AI takes what was taken historically, so no complaint here.

Now I want to hold Port Moresby, and I think I will succeed, so we'll see if the AI goes crazy.

My advice would be: play historically. You should use these tactics only vs a human player [:)]

[sfbaytf]

Now that I think of it if it's possible the developers should consider adding the "drop in" feature that is implemented for the game "Napoleon Total War". If someone is playing AE against the AI let them have the option for a human to drop in and play some. That would add a different flavor and challenge to the game.

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

Now that I think of it if it's possible the developers should consider adding the "drop in" feature that is implemented for the game "Napoleon Total War". If someone is playing AE against the AI let them have the option for a human to drop in and play some. That would add a different flavor and challenge to the game.

Not a new concept. I think ElCid was willing to do something similar for his WITP RHS AI players. I don't remember if anybody took him up on it.

[Andy Mac]

??? you can get someone to take over as the AI if you want you wont have PBEM security but nothing stopping an opponent doing it

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

??? you can get someone to take over as the AI if you want you wont have PBEM security but nothing stopping an opponent doing it

No way not for me, just a comment on the concept.

[sfbaytf]

I broswed the scenario section and heard the Ironman AI was tough. Does that mean you should still play it historically? I'm tempted to give it a try.

You get spoiled playing PBEM. Nothing beats another mass of grey matter at the helm.

[janh]

Ironman has a lot more resources and additional ships for your opponents side according to Andy. But the AI remains scripted, so I guess if you manage to catch it off-guard (i.e. in a situation not considered by the script writer) again, like you did by doing too well or by trying to test an alternate history (order forces where they typically don't go), you probably have the same issues with AI slaughtering itself.

I asked Andy in a different thread a couple of days ago whether there is enough scripting functionality to make a really dynamic AI, that say would react to player raids by dispatching forces from ongoing operations, and rejoin them with the previous ongoing operation later. Or things like that. But I didn't get a reply. It seems to be extremely difficult to program a dynamic AI for such a detailed game with many variables, but I still hope they will patch some more AI functions to make such a dynamic AI into the engine.

[Misconduct]

ORIGINAL: janh

Ironman has a lot more resources and additional ships for your opponents side according to Andy. But the AI remains scripted, so I guess if you manage to catch it off-guard (i.e. in a situation not considered by the script writer) again, like you did by doing too well or by trying to test an alternate history (order forces where they typically don't go), you probably have the same issues with AI slaughtering itself.

well basically this was my only issue, instead of giving up or coming back later with a bigger group, the AI routinely comes at me with same 10 ship formation with few cruisers and thats it. Right now I have over 300 IJN ships sunk from the Java campaign alone.
As much as I want to simply put those ships back in the IJN roster, I really just decided to restart since I caused overwhelming damage already to the AI.

[janh]

Sounds like there ought to be some AI instance above operation script level that each turn checks the progress of each scripted operation, and corrects/delays/reinforces/cancels/redirects etc according to the conditions (intel, met OPFOR, etc).
Think about a script that runs at the start and end of each turn and checks initially which operations have excess units (enemy found weaker than expected?) or where emergencies and reinforcements would be required. And then based on fuel, distance, timing, AO to cross, general situation in its environment, AI would send forces from one OPS to another. As far as I can see in AE the AI doesn't do that.

Basically AI needs to mimic what a human player would do, somewhat dynamically adjusting to the situation and not treating each script independently from the rest. AI basically would have to adjust its scripts and their coordination. With that it could possibly even dispatch forces temporarily to meet a demonstration or feint etc without messing up a subsequent scripts.

I don't know whether AE has the scripting functions/framework to do so? From what I have seen in the modding section, there is at least a linear condition-dependent way to script single operations, but there doesn't seem to be a scripting language that allows to store and manipulate variables or to test other conditions, which would be extremely useful for interacting with other scripts. But maybe one can find a workaround for that with the present functionality? Any modders here that can answer these questions?

[Misconduct]

Totally cool, I had no clue how much work went into the AI script, I think the AI is great except for the only question is just lies in Port moresby, everyone knows in WITP that was the last spot the AI attempted to attack, once you stopped them there it was downhill, I am hoping the AI in AE makes an attempt for it, but not entirely throw the whole navy into take it.

Question is it possible for the AI to "ignore" historical value targets and make attempts to land elsewhere where historically they wouldn't? Say for example the AI takes Rangoon and Mandalay, would there be scripts written that the AI would decided to move on and say attempt to land at Diamond Harbor?

It wouldn't be implimented in all campaigns only certain ones, might expand the realm of possibilities like a real PBEM. Just curious [&:]

[bretg80]

I have also seen this behavior and posted my experience in another thread about Wake. Maybe the devs could illuminate us on whether this higher level scripting logic is present in the game.

[Misconduct]

ORIGINAL: bretg80

I have also seen this behavior and posted my experience in another thread about Wake. Maybe the devs could illuminate us on whether this higher level scripting logic is present in the game.

its been mentioned when a script is active, for example the take at Wake that the script isn't over if Wake doesnt fall, only when wake falls is the "script" completed then, otherwise it will still continue to send its fleet to capture it.

I had the same take at Java, after 4-5 attempts the AI was still attempting to grab Java, so I just decided to bail on that game and restart with more historical game.

[Andy Mac]

Yup AI does the best it can which scen are you plaing ?
 
AI does not think guys it does what I have told it to do and it wont stop until the time is expired or all assets in a script are dead.
 
 

[Misconduct]

Andy I mean is there a campaign will the AI will make an attempt on india or australia? would that be a possibility or beyond the realm?

[Andy Mac]

There are 13 scripts and one or two may have that option

[Drambuie]

Have seen a simlar issue with Akyab, I managed to retreat a lot of the Rangoon leftovers there and reinforced it to around 40k men in total, AI Japanese has landed and moved around 100k troops there but has lost shedloads of ships as I parked the British carriers off shore and bombed the TFs.

Now for about 5 days it has conducted shock attacks at huge odds against it .... last one the FOW reported the AI lost over 100 vehicles in a 1 to 20 shock attack or something silly. Shame because as the OP said this will bleed it dry I fear.

On top of this I think most of the KB is already rusting at the bottom of the sea becuase it broke itself up into small TFs as discussed in other threads (August 42 btw) Unfortunately makes the vs AI option rather redundant if it cannot 'rethink' instead of bashing its head on a brick wall.

[:(]

[bretg80]

Yeah, I don't know if there is anything you can do to improve upon this Andy, but the scripts don't mimic human behavior. If you can adjust them to stop when they have lost 50% of their force, that might be better than the entire fleet. I also don't believe the AI should attack when odds are extremely unfavorable. I can see a defensive battle when you have no choice, but I don't believe commanders will attack at 1:20 odds in the real world.

Not that this game is anything like the REAL WORLD [;)], but the closer it is, the more enjoyable it is to play. Thanks for looking at this thread and commenting Andy and thanks for kicking it off Misconduct.

[Andy Mac]

AI doesnt attack if it has no chance of achieving a result no idea why it would attack at 1:20  unless it was new units crossing fromt eh east or south east overland i.e. crossing the river from a new directikn ?
 
AI doesnt rething sorry nothing we can do about that its a scripted AI the scripts are all exposed if you want to change them its quite easy to do unfortunately wont affect a game in progress

[Andy Mac]

No possible sorry to many scripts would fall over if you set a 50% threshold.
 
e.g. a reaction script late war that has a full Corps of Japanese troops I know the AI will have lost 2/3 of that force but I dont know WHICH 2/3 as it depends on which route an attacker takes so I tell the Ai to use it all in the hope that it will now react with something to what a player does.
 
As folks get better at the game the Ai will get creamed it was a nasty surprise for the first say 3 months post release but any player will tear it apart evenrtually as it falls into patterns and has weaknesses I cannot fix.