Conquered alien race, racial bonus.

[Wade1000]

Conquered alien race, racial bonus.

Some of us have mentioned how we find it odd that it appears that the conquered alien race, racial bonus is instantly applied to our entire population/civilization.
This conquered alien race, racial bonus popup window can be seen in the video posted here: tm.asp?m=2411004&mpage=1&key=? (from 'Combat Video Released for Distant Worlds' )

-Does the conquered alien race, racial bonus apply to only where the conquered alien races are? It seems that it should.

-Does the conquered alien race, racial bonus apply only to them and not our other races in our civilization? It seems that it should.

-Does the conquered alien race, racial bonus apply as a percentage, to the applicable game element, according to how many of the alien race you have? It seems that it should.

(Yeah, I know I wrote "conquered alien race, racial bonus" 7 times...plus the title. Heh.)

[Lord_Astraios]

I saw that and i was going to ask about it but you beat me in it.   [8D]

[hadberz]

The last question is yes. I'm not sure on the other 2 questions. If you don't like the idea of race bonuses they can be modded to 0.

When your empire has a population of at least 10 million but less than 2 billion of a particular race then your empire receives 50% of their race ability bonuses. When your empire has a population of over 2 billion of a particular race then your empire receives their full race ability bonuses.

[Baleur]

That seems reasonable, frankly it sounds like a great solution

Lets say a racial bonus is, i dunno, enhanced ship building.
If you have assimilated 300 million aliens with that skill, surely they would cooperate (or be forced!) to help you build more efficently.
And if you have over 2 billion of them, well that would pretty much ensure that whatever special knowledge they have is spread out across your entire empire. (or 2 billion slaves if you like that mindset, they are just numbers ingame anyway, we can imagine them as anything!)

Or even if they were purely biological aspects like "wooh stronger arms", who's to say your empire isnt conducting experiments on them to mimick that in your own race's soldiers? [:'(]

[Sarissofoi]

Some of this make sense.
Like bonus to maintance ships or resarch and miners.  You take their people reeducate or force and then your labs, mines&rafineries  and ships get additional crew.
Sure that makes sense especially with resarch(look what happend with nazi scientist after WWII). But on the other hand I am sure to not let anyone not reeducated to be near reactors or engines of my space fleets(look at polish force laborers in germany in WWII - the highest sabotage/producing broken part ratio). This can also aply to miners.
 Also espionage bonus from conqured race can be used against you. Especially if you dont reeducate new race enough.
Lower troops maintance? If this apply only to units formed from race with bonus this is fine with me. In other way not really.
Lower war weariness or hapinness bonus? If aply only planets with race with bonus then yes.

Instant bonus is bad. Fresh conquered planets should have some time sto establish occupation force and administration. Then some time should take to reeducate population.

[Wade1000]

I think the racial bonus should apply to just the races and where they are located. If the racial bonuses where because of a sort of philosophy or knowledge then other civilizations could adapt the bonuses without obtaining the alien races.

Or even if they were purely biological aspects like "wooh stronger arms", who's to say your empire isnt conducting experiments on them to mimick that in your own race's soldiers?

That could work lore wise but I think it'd be silly applied to some racial abilities and would overall seem odd.

[martok]

ORIGINAL: hadberz

The last question is yes. I'm not sure on the other 2 questions. If you don't like the idea of race bonuses they can be modded to 0.

When your empire has a population of at least 10 million but less than 2 billion of a particular race then your empire receives 50% of their race ability bonuses. When your empire has a population of over 2 billion of a particular race then your empire receives their full race ability bonuses.

Interesting; I must've missed that passage before.


So, to ask a tangentially-related question: How big does an empire's population get, anyway? Is 2 billion a fairly large amount (as a percentage of your population), or is it more a drop in the bucket? How large do colonies typically get?

Another tangentially-related question: Will alien inhabitants of conquered colonies ever migrate to worlds you've colonized with your own race? Or do they pretty much stay on their own planet(s)? What exactly are the possibilities -- if any -- of having cosmopolitan, multi-racial colonies?

[EisenHammer]

2 billion doesn't sound high enough too me. Maybe here on Earth it is but not for the galaxy.

[Deto]

ORIGINAL: EisenHammer

2 billion doesn't sound high enough too me. Maybe here on Earth it is but not for the galaxy.

I kinda doubt many of the 'outer colonies' will even be millions high in population, depending on race of course and their reproductive rate / knack for migration to new colonies. Homeworld is completely different issue surely.

[Gargantou]

ORIGINAL: EisenHammer

2 billion doesn't sound high enough too me. Maybe here on Earth it is but not for the galaxy.

Even on Earth it's not that high, I mean if we switched to a more agricultural society(less fertile ground being used for cattle and instead being used to grow crops that are eaten directly by us) we could easily support maybe even twice our current population without starvation-issues.

Also, a bit off-topic but is your avatar from an Advance Wars game? I love those games!

[Wade1000]

When your empire has a population of at least 10 million but less than 2 billion of a particular race then your empire receives 50% of their race ability bonuses. When your empire has a population of over 2 billion of a particular race then your empire receives their full race ability bonuses.

(edit: I rethought this part.) Well, Earth's current population is approaching 7 billion. Those numbers might apply well for the factor for an alien racial bonus to meld into a smaller civilization in a small region of space.
Though, I agree that those numbers seem TOO LOW to apply well for the factor for an alien racial bonus to meld into a large galactic civilization.

So, it appears that the conquered alien racial bonuses are done with an abstraction where they meld/merge into a civilization according to their total populations at the two levels of 10 million and 2 billion.
I suppose that could be acceptable.

Although, it seems more logical and less abstract to apply the racial bonuses to where the particular races are and apply it only to them. That would provide more strtegic choices.

Maybe the developers went for the simpler approach to it. That might provide more ease of use and fun, to some.

[Gargantou]

I'd prefer to simply apply it as a percentage of your total population.

I.e. if you have a secondary alien species that has an attribute with 50%(if you play a game with that species as your primary) something, but they only make up 10% of your population, then the bonus for that "something" would only be 5%, i.e. 10% of 50%.

Hope you understand what I mean.

[Sarissofoi]

Yeah. I got it.
That isnt that bad option. Better that 2billions.
Actually your proposition can lead to some interesting situation when your first race become minority in your empire. And you lose some bonus from your race. In this case penalty statistic have more sense.


On the other case there is many things to do with status of alien race in your empire. If they become slaves? Or meyby commoners in feudal/monarchy systems? They get full citzizenship or meyby tehy are illegals? Using some additional option to customize inside politics of your empire should add deep and be come more interesting.

But now all of this is a  empty talk. Game is almost ready to ship and we can throw our rocks when we see game on our own eyes.

[hadberz]

So, to ask a tangentially-related question: How big does an empire's population get, anyway? Is 2 billion a fairly large amount (as a percentage of your population), or is it more a drop in the bucket? How large do colonies typically get?

Another tangentially-related question: Will alien inhabitants of conquered colonies ever migrate to worlds you've colonized with your own race? Or do they pretty much stay on their own planet(s)? What exactly are the possibilities -- if any -- of having cosmopolitan, multi-racial colonies?

That depends on the game. My current capital planet has 17B. My smallest colony has less then 1M. This is with a empire of 38 colonies.

Yes, there is migration, they can even migrate between empires. Colonies can have different races on them. They have to want to move though i.e lower taxes, better development.

[Wade1000]

-Does the migration happen as an abstract in the background or via transports that can be intercepted or blocked? Either way is okay.

[ASHBERY76]

ORIGINAL: hadberz

The last question is yes. I'm not sure on the other 2 questions. If you don't like the idea of race bonuses they can be modded to 0.

When your empire has a population of at least 10 million but less than 2 billion of a particular race then your empire receives 50% of their race ability bonuses. When your empire has a population of over 2 billion of a particular race then your empire receives their full race ability bonuses.

So you can lower the bonuses by modding? That might be the best early solution untill pacthes or expansions add more depth to the system.I would lower it to 30% with full race bonuses..

[Gargantou]

ORIGINAL: Wade1000

-Does the migration happen as an abstract in the background or via transports that can be intercepted or blocked? Either way is okay.

One would hope that the player could choose to make it illegal for ones 'subjects' to immigrate to other empires meaning ones military vessels would intercept ships attempting to do so.

Sorta like in real-life, North Korea has practiced it for quite some time.

The negative effect of the 'law' forbidding emigration could be that morale is lowered and unrest increased.

[hadberz]

ORIGINAL: Wade1000

-Does the migration happen as an abstract in the background or via transports that can be intercepted or blocked? Either way is okay.

Passenger ships, so they can be destroyed. Keep in mind they might be moving from one colony to another colony in your empire.

So you can lower the bonuses by modding?

Yep, I in a custom game right now with 0 bonuses for all races. Very easy to get setup.

[Wade1000]

Except, I'm wondering if the vastness of a future 3D space civilization might be too much too enforce borders where ships of many types are traveling. Borders in real life 3D space will be complicated. Monitoring multitudes of civilian ships and regulating those borders might be even more complicated.

[Wade1000]

ORIGINAL: hadberz

ORIGINAL: Wade1000

-Does the migration happen as an abstract in the background or via transports that can be intercepted or blocked? Either way is okay.

Passenger ships, so they can be destroyed.

So you can lower the bonuses by modding?

Yep, I in a custom game right now with 0 bonuses for all races. Very easy to get setup.

Okay. Cool. My space border speculation is just about real life future now. In game it is moot since migration is not a background abstraction.