The Reluctant Admiral

JuanG · Post by **JuanG** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:12 pm

I would suggest against adding recon F4F's to US CV's - as it is, they have 4 groups. Adding a recon group will bring that to 5 which is the limit, and that reduces the flexibility of being able to drop USMC groups on them as needed.

If anything, I'd suggest a few more USMC recon groups, but I dont know if John wants to go altering the Allied OOB too much.

John 3rd · Post by **John 3rd** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:14 pm

Paula and I are planning on renewing our Vows this Sunday at Cupid's Wedding Chapel! 

  After everything we've gone through in the last couple of years, it is time for a little 'why did we get married' time.  I joke with my wife that she got the proper Lutheran White Dress Wedding and now she's getting Elvis!
 
Juan---Take your time with things.  Go as far as you feel practical.
 
We are moving quite quickly through all this and it might not be too unreasonable to have a working model of the Scenario ready within a couple of weeks.  When work started, I had no idea how long this would take but with all the Design Team's help it shouldn't be too long.
 
As to the Wildcats, does anyone have an opinion on this?
 

John 3rd · Post by **John 3rd** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:22 pm

I just saw this Thread Post with Big B's:

ORIGINAL: P.Hausser

Let Carrier Capeble planes upgrade to George !!

Navy Fighters should be able to upgrade to Navy Fighters !! (At least when PDU is On)

And maby add the "German" submarines and surface raiders who served in Pacific to the game ... ?

My responce:
We've had the George (and other Navy Fighters) discussion within my Yamamoto Mod Threads.

Completely concur about adding the German U-Boats, Tenders, and Raiders! Wish I had thought of that in my Mod. Perhaps I still might...copying and pasting this page into the Reluctant Admiral...

QUESTION: COULD we add this? It has always driven me NUTS that this real-life facet of the war has not been included within WitP or AE.

FatR · Post by **FatR** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:52 pm

A preliminary list of new Navy planes that can benefit from new plane art/recolors for those who may be gracious enough to make them:

A6M3b
A6M4 (the first Kinsei-Zero in this mod)
A6M4i (has bigger 30-mm guns)
A6M8i
A7M3 (6 cannons inctead of four)
B7A3 Ryusei Kai (The version of Ryuisei with MK9 engine. Probably will pack armor instead of another speed increase - torpedo bombers are limited by safe torpedo drop speed anyway.)
D4Y5 (The version of Judy with MK9 engine. Either MK9 was really, really promising, or they grasped at straws by the end of the war.)
G3M4-Q (I decided in the favor of purely patrol version. In RL Nells were used this way from early 1943. An outdated airframe can't get proportional benefits from more powerful engines, and there is simply no space to place adequate defensive armament in G3M frame.)
J6M (Ki-83 used by IJN)
N1K4-A (The carrier-capable Shiden modification.)
Yasukuni (Ki-67-Ib used by IJN)

If anyone can draw an art and a planetop for G8N Renzan
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/bww2/g8n.html
(this 4E bomber was stopped from production only by deteriorating economic situation late in the war), I'll be extra thankful!

RedLancer · Post by **RedLancer** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:05 pm

A preliminary list of new Navy planes that can benefit from new plane art/recolors for those who may be gracious enough to make them:

A6M3b
A6M4 (the first Kinsei-Zero in this mod)
A6M4i (has bigger 30-mm guns)
A6M8i
A7M3 (6 cannons inctead of four)
B7A3 Ryusei Kai (The version of Ryuisei with MK9 engine. Probably will pack armor instead of another speed increase - torpedo bombers are limited by safe torpedo drop speed anyway.)
D4Y5 (The version of Judy with MK9 engine. Either MK9 was really, really promising, or they grasped at straws by the end of the war.)
G3M4-Q (I decided in the favor of purely patrol version. In RL Nells were used this way from early 1943. An outdated airframe can't get proportional benefits from more powerful engines, and there is simply no space to place adequate defensive armament in G3M frame.)
J6M (Ki-83 used by IJN)
N1K4-A (The carrier-capable Shiden modification.)
Yasukuni (Ki-67-Ib used by IJN)

If anyone can draw an art and a planetop for G8N Renzan
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/bww2/g8n.html
(this 4E bomber was stopped from production only by deteriorating economic situation late in the war), I'll be extra thankful!

I'll take this as a wish list. Gold Standard will be an actual picture, failing that I'll add new art that is similar (modified as I think it might have looked) but at least allows for a new picture for the type.

DuckofTindalos · Post by **DuckofTindalos** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:26 pm

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I wake up and find tons of commentary:

1. FatR--Keep up the work on the aircraft and, more importantly, keep up the questions on specific aircraft so we can get comments.
2. BK--Good to see you back with us!
3. I've got no issues with anything discussed regarding aircraft. It all sounds reasonable to me.
4. Red Lancer--I appreciate the attention to detail you are taking regarding your artwork. NICE!
5. Juan--Keep at the changes. It sounds like a bear to do.

Smeulders--Thanks for the suggestion. Brainstorming is a great thing and I really enjoy the synergy that comes with it.

Juan--As much as it pains me to say, go ahead and make those DDs guns RIGHT for the scenario. Which classes of Japanese DDs actually have true DP guns? I assume the Yugumos as well as Moon-Class. Are there any others?

We've turned into a Scenario Design Team! How about that?

Just FYI, all Jap DD's do NOT have DP guns in stock. That's patently untrue. We have all four kinds of 3rd YT mounts, correctly distributed among the classes.

Shark7 · Post by **Shark7** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:56 pm

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I just saw this Thread Post with Big B's:

ORIGINAL: P.Hausser

Let Carrier Capeble planes upgrade to George !!

Navy Fighters should be able to upgrade to Navy Fighters !! (At least when PDU is On)

And maby add the "German" submarines and surface raiders who served in Pacific to the game ... ?

My responce:
We've had the George (and other Navy Fighters) discussion within my Yamamoto Mod Threads.

Completely concur about adding the German U-Boats, Tenders, and Raiders! Wish I had thought of that in my Mod. Perhaps I still might...copying and pasting this page into the Reluctant Admiral...

QUESTION: COULD we add this? It has always driven me NUTS that this real-life facet of the war has not been included within WitP or AE.

Keep in mind the only 'tenders' were a couple of 'Seacows' which can't be properly modeled in the game. Its either an AS or an SS, no combo of the two.

DuckofTindalos · Post by **DuckofTindalos** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:03 pm

Not correct. The KM had a small number of more-or-less jury-rigged subtenders.

JuanG · Post by **JuanG** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:31 pm

ORIGINAL: Terminus

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I wake up and find tons of commentary:

1. FatR--Keep up the work on the aircraft and, more importantly, keep up the questions on specific aircraft so we can get comments.
2. BK--Good to see you back with us!
3. I've got no issues with anything discussed regarding aircraft. It all sounds reasonable to me.
4. Red Lancer--I appreciate the attention to detail you are taking regarding your artwork. NICE!
5. Juan--Keep at the changes. It sounds like a bear to do.

Smeulders--Thanks for the suggestion. Brainstorming is a great thing and I really enjoy the synergy that comes with it.

Juan--As much as it pains me to say, go ahead and make those DDs guns RIGHT for the scenario. Which classes of Japanese DDs actually have true DP guns? I assume the Yugumos as well as Moon-Class. Are there any others?

We've turned into a Scenario Design Team! How about that?

Just FYI, all Jap DD's do NOT have DP guns in stock. That's patently untrue. We have all four kinds of 3rd YT mounts, correctly distributed among the classes.

All of the Japanese DD's except the Fubuki class with 12.7cm guns in stock Scenario 1 use the Type B mount (Fubuki's correctly have Type A), which is incorrect. The Yugumo and Shimakaze use Type D, but as the device is identical to Type B that doesn't mean much.

The database does have all 4 (6 infact counting the singles) types of mount, but they are not used - even the Hatsuharu and Shiratsuyu classes use the Type B dual device rather than the correct Type A and Type B single devices respectively.

I have no idea if that was balance decision or what, but they are not "correctly distributed among the classes".

DuckofTindalos · Post by **DuckofTindalos** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:48 pm

What are you talking about? The Hatsuharu and Shiratsuyu both had two double and one single mount, which is what they have in the game.

JuanG · Post by **JuanG** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:54 pm

Yes, however, this is the data ingame for Shiratsuyu class;

2 x 2 x 12.7cm/50 3YT T. B. (#1669)
1 x 1 x 12.7cm/50 3YT T. B. (#1669)

These are both DP weapons, with an elevation of 75 degrees.

However, this is incorrect, and the devices should be;

2 x 2 x 12.7cm/50 3YT T. C. (#1670)
1 x 1 x 12.7cm/50 3YT S. B. (#1673)

Both of which were only semi-DP weapons (like the 15.5cm/60), only able to elevate to 55 degrees, and thus not classified as DP in the database.

Note that the designation system for the Twin and Single mounts is different.

As you can see these devices are in the database, they are just not used for whatever reason.

Essentially, as it stands now, all Japanese DDs after and including the Fubuki II group are DP capable. This was not the case.

RedLancer · Post by **RedLancer** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:02 pm

If anyone can draw an art and a planetop for G8N Renzan
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/bww2/g8n.html
(this 4E bomber was stopped from production only by deteriorating economic situation late in the war), I'll be extra thankful!

How's this?

FatR · Post by **FatR** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:14 pm

Great work, Red Lancer, thanks!

RedLancer · Post by **RedLancer** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:35 pm

OK - here's my interpretation of a D4Y5 Judy - I've stretched the nose of a D4Y4 a bit to allow for the longer engine. Please tell me if you're not happy.

DuckofTindalos · Post by **DuckofTindalos** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:41 pm

Sorry Juan, I see what you mean now. That IS not correctly done; I can't tell you the reasoning behind it, since I didn't do the Jap DD's, but I would guess that they were MEANT to be correctly distributed (because the devices are all there), but were somehow overlooked...[&:]

RedLancer · Post by **RedLancer** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:14 pm

An A7M3 Reppu - as I understand the supercharger was at the bottom.

RedLancer · Post by **RedLancer** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:30 pm

I'm not 100% sure whether the A6M8 in game is the 62 model

Having found the original picture and compared them the stock A6M8 does have the 62 model engine.

chesmart · Post by **chesmart** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:14 pm

Interesting Termi is there an error in the Japanese Naval Devices ? BTW Welcome Back[:D]

John 3rd · Post by **John 3rd** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:00 pm

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

If anyone can draw an art and a planetop for G8N Renzan
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/bww2/g8n.html
(this 4E bomber was stopped from production only by deteriorating economic situation late in the war), I'll be extra thankful!

How's this?

Very NICE!

John 3rd · Post by **John 3rd** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:02 pm

I like the art work.  It looks excellent.
 
Terminus---Glad through this Mod work we could find an error in the regular AE.  It is always good to see unexpected benefits.
 

The Reluctant Admiral

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