Understanding the Economic Model

[autarkis1967]

I have been trying to understand the economics of the game and it is baffling me. Every game I play I eventually end up in the red and can't get out of it. Recently found out about the F12 economic screen so have been trying to use that to gauge whats going on but the numbers don't add up.

Started a new game as Human, Republic in sandbox mode. Really only had to deal with Pirates as no opponents where near me. Selected all my ships and had them retire to nearest shipyard and crash researched concurrent Beam. By the time beam was ready all my ships where gone and pirates where destroying my mining statios (the desired result). My economy was excellent at +25000 credits. Deleted or obsoleted all designs and recreated them with concurrent beam weapons so everything had guns (even freighters). Rebuilt explorers, construction ships and small fleet to protect everything (less than 20 escort class ships with around 650 maintenance each.) All still looks good 17-18,000 credits income. Added small starport to colony world and created a troop transport with modern advances I had made in the 3 years I had played to this point. One done took it and 1 other escort ship and destroyed all pirate bases known. Income still great.
Colonized my first world and created a medium starport cause it was far from home. While the starport was building I colonized a second world and began building a starport there. Suddenly my income goes negative. Not sure what caused it or why but looking at the screens my income is mear 29k while expenses are at 34k. My worlds say they are taxed at 22% and producing 90k income the 2 new colonies are at 0%. The F12 screen doesn't show ay sudden increase in spending to account for this. I had 6 mines 3 gas mine and 1 other (research base). 19 warships (lost a couple during the pirate fights), 4 construction and 4 exploration ships. The private sector looked great with 40k income but state income was suddenly red. One thing I noticed was corruption was 25% but even that doesn't account for the drop that drastic. Didn't save the game will try and redo it this evening to see if I can map out the issue.
So far I find the game intriguing but still needs a lot of work. Not having issues with refueling a learned the docking port was the key. Once I have concurrent beams I can beat the pirates up pretty easily and don't even have to guard bases if they are armed and have time to get their shield charged. Not sure why bases are not armed by default. Just can't get the economy to stabilize for now.

[Litjan]

You do have the second patch (1.02) applied, do you?

Jan

[autarkis1967]

Oops yes I should have said that. I do have the patch 1.02 on as well.

[Webbco]

Careful with building a lot of military ships and constructors early on - if you go to the ships and bases screen you can see how much the maintenance costs are for these...it certainly adds up.

Also check to see if you have spies, sometimes the AI recruits quite a few

Check troops too, the computer often puts quite a few on a number of colonies if you have troop management on auto.

[Erik Rutins]

I would also check ship/base/troop/agent upkeep first to make sure you haven't overbuilt. If you're sure that you have not, please upload a save file for us to check.

[Jim D Burns]

Pirate alliances are not tabulated on the economic screen I believe. They can get you in trouble if you have too many.

Jim

[autarkis1967]

I will being duplicating this effort tonight. I didn't have any pirate alliances I dealt with them by destroying them. I had less fleet than what the game starts me with and I was doing fine up to a point. I will try and keep a save file for each year of play so I can map the progression. It may even work out all right on a retry

[tuser]

One thing that may cause some confusion if you aren't expecting it is that you start out with a rather high development value on your homeworld - however, once the starting stock of luxury goods runs out after a little while, your tax income may be reduced significantly.

[Grotius]

So how much micromanagement of resources should we do? I seem to be low on Argon, even though the Galactopedia says it's a common resource. Should I take control of a construction ship and order it to build a mining platform at a planet with argon? Or can I trust the AI "private sector" to do this for me?

Also, is there a way to see which ship-construction projects are being delayed because of lack of minerals, and which minerals are lacking?

[autarkis1967]

ok Economy crashed again. Will write up my notes and try and upload the files.

[autarkis1967]

What is the process to upload files? I don't see a sticky on it so not sure where or what I have to do.

[Erik Rutins]

Hi Autarkis,

If you think you have a save with an issue, there is a pinned thread in the tech support sub-forum that explains where and how to upload it to us. Please also post a thread in that sub-forum telling us what issue the save file is showing.

Regards,

- Erik

[swatter555]

ORIGINAL: tuser

One thing that may cause some confusion if you aren't expecting it is that you start out with a rather high development value on your homeworld - however, once the starting stock of luxury goods runs out after a little while, your tax income may be reduced significantly.

Could the economy crash be that simple? I don't know, my homeworld never recovers to pre-crash levels, even after my economy starts booming again. I will pay close attention next game.

[Erik Rutins]

Is this with 1.0.2?

[DivePac88]

I can't understand these Guys economies crashing, even in pre 1.0.2 patch. I have had no problems with the economies in any of my games. But I do follow one old rule from 'War in the Pacific', and that is to leave very little up to the AI. Which means that I do keep all State spending in my control (State ships, agents, and troops).

[forsaken1111]

ORIGINAL: DivePac88

I can't understand these Guys economies crashing, even in pre 1.0.2 patch. I have had no problems with the economies in any of my games. But I do follow one old rule from 'War in the Pacific', and that is to leave very little up to the AI. Which means that I do keep all State spending in my control (State ships, agents, and troops).

Yeah good luck with that when you hit 148 colonies and are at war with 7 enemy empires and trading with 3 more like in my current game.

Playing Human Republic Pax Romana, following way of the ancients now recently. Already had two civil wars due to war unhappiness and reconquering your own empire is OH SO FUN.

Loving the game, just waiting for some of the bugs to get patched up. Its epic really, but beyond anyone's ability to coordinate beyond a certain point. Automation is necessary.

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: autarkis1967

I have been trying to understand the economics of the game and it is baffling me. Every game I play I eventually end up in the red and can't get out of it. Recently found out about the F12 economic screen so have been trying to use that to gauge whats going on but the numbers don't add up.

Started a new game as Human, Republic in sandbox mode. Really only had to deal with Pirates as no opponents where near me. Selected all my ships and had them retire to nearest shipyard and crash researched concurrent Beam. By the time beam was ready all my ships where gone and pirates where destroying my mining statios (the desired result). My economy was excellent at +25000 credits. Deleted or obsoleted all designs and recreated them with concurrent beam weapons so everything had guns (even freighters). Rebuilt explorers, construction ships and small fleet to protect everything (less than 20 escort class ships with around 650 maintenance each.) All still looks good 17-18,000 credits income. Added small starport to colony world and created a troop transport with modern advances I had made in the 3 years I had played to this point. One done took it and 1 other escort ship and destroyed all pirate bases known. Income still great.
Colonized my first world and created a medium starport cause it was far from home. While the starport was building I colonized a second world and began building a starport there. Suddenly my income goes negative. Not sure what caused it or why but looking at the screens my income is mear 29k while expenses are at 34k. My worlds say they are taxed at 22% and producing 90k income the 2 new colonies are at 0%. The F12 screen doesn't show ay sudden increase in spending to account for this. I had 6 mines 3 gas mine and 1 other (research base). 19 warships (lost a couple during the pirate fights), 4 construction and 4 exploration ships. The private sector looked great with 40k income but state income was suddenly red. One thing I noticed was corruption was 25% but even that doesn't account for the drop that drastic. Didn't save the game will try and redo it this evening to see if I can map out the issue.
So far I find the game intriguing but still needs a lot of work. Not having issues with refueling a learned the docking port was the key. Once I have concurrent beams I can beat the pirates up pretty easily and don't even have to guard bases if they are armed and have time to get their shield charged. Not sure why bases are not armed by default. Just can't get the economy to stabilize for now.

Here are two silly things that got me:

1. Paying off too many pirates.

2. Turning of auto tax option. None of my planets were being taxed!

[8D]

[ductape]

how much do agents cost to upkeep?I cant seem to find this anywhere.

[Okim]

Turning of auto tax option. None of my planets were being taxed!

I`ve noticed that too. While my colonies were not taxed at all my homeworld was assigned a tax of 50%! I wonder why my people did not rebel against such tax! Turned AI off and manually adjusted taxes on all planets (so far there are less than 15 of them, so no problem with micro here). Income increased dramatically after that.

[Gertjan]

I never have econ issues and I do build a lot of bases (starports), which keeps those freighters from travelling long distances (perhaps those starports pay themselves back that way?) and is handy for fleet refueling/management. Another econ tip: play with a race that has some bonusses in the econ shpere and scout a lot in the beginning to find the best colonies.

@Forsaken, I agree with you, once the game gets going and you have a large empire and several restless neighbours you can really be busy. I dont want to be annoyed with doing everying manually. I dislike micro management and love macro management. That's why this game is very good and can be super if automation is further improved (especially ship designing, fuel issues and fleet management, and some diplomacy things). I have high hopes!