Fuel Supply allies

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

The KB doesn't move around a lot in my CG any more, other than through tidal motion, and for some reason the subs are few and far between too.  There's one near the Puget Sound, a couple lurking around Ceylon, and one just west of Port Moresby that patrols down to Cooktown.  One shows up from time to time near Sydney too, but other than those I'm not seeing the big floods of subs everywhere any longer.  Maybe my heavy ASW presence around all my major ports is having an effect.

I only sank one IJN CV by late 1942, but the KB went and hid in Tokyo and Kobe for almost two years due, I think, to lack of escorts. I'm playing Scenario 1, and the lack of escorts really makes the scripts afraid to form Air TFs. Now, in mid-1944 (and with, I suspect, a Saipan-lost trigger for the AI to come out regardless) the KB has reappeared and we've had some fun. I suspect the "KB" I was seeing near DG was really CVLs out of Singapore rather than the heavies, although I just yesterday sank an "Air TF" consisting of only Soryu and ONE DD near Great Nicobar Island. A little sad for the AI.

Given the AI script logic on forming TFs I think Scenario 2 ought to be the "standard" real war scenario, not Scenario 1. That's my next game.

I played 1942 and part of 1943 on Patch 1, and sank only, I think, five or seven IJN full-size subs. Starting after the later patches I think would reduce the sub inventory in mid-44 a lot more. I'm not seeing the numbers I did in some of the early patrol zones (taking out the sub base at Kwaj. really reduces the WC populaiton), but I have probbaly 400% more subs that I can see than you describe. More IO than before, less Sydney--Noumea than early on, etc., but enough that they're still a factor.

[Nomad]

I have been using Cristobal and Cape Town. I use Cristobal to supply fuel and supply for the South Pacific from New Zealand to Pago-Pago. Then I use Cape Town to supply fuel and supply to Australia and supply only to India. I have also started using my fastest xAPs to move my SWPac LCUs to CT and moving those to Australia.

[sfbaytf]

The only thing I have to add is part of the equation is the style of play of your opponent. Personally I don't like automating tankers or merchants. It's much more work to manage all manually, but I'm too suspicious and parinoid of letting silicon manage such valuable resources. Same with subs.

[Torplexed]

ORIGINAL: Cad908
Also, you can move fuel stocks from the East Coast US to Capetown to support Australia and India.

I must admit there is a certain irony that the safest route for shipping fuel to Australia is across what was historically, a U-Boat-infested Atlantic to avoid the depredations of a Japanese I-Boat fleet in the Pacific that in the real war didn't bother to attack merchant shipping much. [;)]

[John Lansford]

In my CG (Scenario 2, quiet China), the AI kept sending lone CV's and CVL's with just one or two escorts to raid the SoPac region.  They always tried doing this when I had several CV's in the region, though, so it didn't turn out well for them.  The last one I sank, Akagi IIRC, was so depleted in strike aircraft that only a half dozen dive bombers attacked my carriers, although it did have a nearly full strength fighter squadron on board.

[P.Hausser]

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

In my CG (Scenario 2, quiet China), the AI kept sending lone CV's and CVL's with just one or two escorts to raid the SoPac region.  They always tried doing this when I had several CV's in the region, though, so it didn't turn out well for them.  The last one I sank, Akagi IIRC, was so depleted in strike aircraft that only a half dozen dive bombers attacked my carriers, although it did have a nearly full strength fighter squadron on board.

Play a Human [;)]

[Nomad]

ORIGINAL: Torplexed

ORIGINAL: Cad908
Also, you can move fuel stocks from the East Coast US to Capetown to support Australia and India.

I must admit there is a certain irony that the safest route for shipping fuel to Australia is across what was historically, a U-Boat-infested Atlantic to avoid the depredations of a Japanese I-Boat fleet in the Pacific that in the real war didn't bother to attack merchant shipping much. [;)]

That is not really true. The convoy route from the Eastern USA to Capetown went directly south to South America and then across the Southern Atlantic to Capetown. The U-boats were concentrated in the Northern Atlantic.

[Mistmatz]

ORIGINAL: Nomad

ORIGINAL: Torplexed

ORIGINAL: Cad908
Also, you can move fuel stocks from the East Coast US to Capetown to support Australia and India.

I must admit there is a certain irony that the safest route for shipping fuel to Australia is across what was historically, a U-Boat-infested Atlantic to avoid the depredations of a Japanese I-Boat fleet in the Pacific that in the real war didn't bother to attack merchant shipping much. [;)]

That is not really true. The convoy route from the Eastern USA to Capetown went directly south to South America and then across the Southern Atlantic to Capetown. The U-boats were concentrated in the Northern Atlantic.

I wonder if this detour is reflected in the distance between off-map bases in AE?

[Nomad]

Probably not. I would agree that TFs from UK to Capetown would be going through some sub infested waters.

[morganbj]

ORIGINAL: P.Hausser

Play a Human [;)]

You mean there's not a little Japanese guy in my computer controlling the other side?

I'm devastated.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Torplexed

I must admit there is a certain irony that the safest route for shipping fuel to Australia is across what was historically, a U-Boat-infested Atlantic to avoid the depredations of a Japanese I-Boat fleet in the Pacific that in the real war didn't bother to attack merchant shipping much. [;)]

I think most of the time when players use that routing it is to avoid air and surface threats due to the conquest expanse of the Japanese player.

[Bo Rearguard]

ORIGINAL: Nomad


That is not really true. The convoy route from the Eastern USA to Capetown went directly south to South America and then across the Southern Atlantic to Capetown. The U-boats were concentrated in the Northern Atlantic.

This does seem to overlook Operation Drumbeat from January to August 1942 when U-Boats operating off the US East Coast sank a staggering 609 ships totaling 3.1 million tons for the loss of only 22 U-boats. That was almost one quarter of all the tonnage lost to U-Boats in the war. I know you don't have to worry about U-Boats in the game but historically I'd be very wary of dispatching tankers from an East Coast port in early 1942.

[Stvitus2002]

Not having tried it yet...can the shorter ranged tankers make the
East coast - Capetown trip without running out of fuel? It seems like
a LONG haul.

Doesn't Capetown get it's own fuel supply by "reinforcment convoys"?



WO 0/0

[Nomad]

TFs seem to refuel along the way. They don't use any endurance along the way.

And Capetown doesn't get enough fuel or supply to support full scale operations.

[crsutton]

Don't be bashful about using AKs for fuel. In fact, I don't see how it can be avoided. You should have plenty more than you need in 1942 as you are not required to move a whole lot of supply. In September of 42 I don't think I am using 1/3rd of my Aks. Why not haul gas. Use the big ones. Likewise you can afford the loss of a dozen Aks more so than you can tankers. Use AKs in risky areas.
 
You will not have enough fuel in Cape Town unless you run some convoys from the east coast. I have four AK convoys of about 10 ships each that do nothing but carry fuel from the US to Cape Town.
 
You do not need all the tankers that you have in SE Asia. Send as many as you can spare through the canal to help the Pacific. Eventuallly Balboa builds up some fuel stocks. You can run a tanker force out of there if you want.
 
Stockpile in Hobart, Aukland, Samoa and Noumea. Not in mainland OZ where it will get gobbled up by industry that you do not need.
 
Escort your tankers and use TF of not more than 4 tankers.
 
Resist the temptation to send your old BBs to the SoPac or Oz early in the game. They just gobble up fuel that you don't have. You will barely have enough gas to run six carriers in SoPac until late 42.
 
 

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Nomad

TFs seem to refuel along the way. They don't use any endurance along the way.

And Capetown doesn't get enough fuel or supply to support full scale operations.

It does eventually. Millions and millions (apologies to Dr. Sagan.)

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Stockpile in Hobart, Aukland, Samoa and Noumea. Not in mainland OZ where it will get gobbled up by industry that you do not need.

This is somewhat true, but I still use Sydney for my main dump coming from Cape Town. It can load and unload FAST, fuel there lets you fill up the myriad ships coming out of its shipyard, and it's days closer to the front in the Solomons. Also, the AI floods subs from Rabaul to NZ, and basing fuel south only gives them more days to kick you. I also base my main ASW effort from Sydney, and that eats up a surprising amount of fuel.

Habits differ, but in my game NZ has been a non-factor in about every way. I can't even afford to buy out most of their LCUs.

[Stvitus2002]

Here is what i had in mind:

Fuel: Abadan>Karachi
Abadan>Columbo
East coast>Capetown>Perth
LA>Pearl Harbor
LA>North Pacific
East Coast>Panama>Tahiti>all other South Pacific bases
(to avoid the Jap submarine party off San diego/LA)

Supply: Is Aden a supply point?
Aden>Karachi
Aden>Columbo
East Coast>Capetown>Perth
Frisco>Pearl Harbor
Seattle>North pacific
East Coast>panama>Tahiti>South pacific

Resist the temptation to send your old BBs to the SoPac or Oz early in the game

....Don't think i'll have to worry about that. 5 were sunk in the PH raid,a
sixth has been burning for a week[:@]



WO 0/0

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Warrant officer 0/0

Here is what i had in mind:

Fuel: Abadan>Karachi
Abadan>Columbo
East coast>Capetown>Perth
LA>Pearl Harbor
LA>North Pacific
East Coast>Panama>Tahiti>all other South Pacific bases
(to avoid the Jap submarine party off San diego/LA)

I do all that, except LA to North Pac. I use Seatlle and Portland, for distance and subs. Seattle sometimes gets stiffed in the forums, but it's a monster base in AE. Best shipyard in the game (specializing in BBs), easy to ASW defend, and usually not overrun with aircraft and troops moving through.

Some people use Port Stanley for the southern tier, if you're really paranoid about subs at the exit chutes. Once you fill up the pipeline from the EC, it's about the same as Panama for the far southern tier. Not for the Marshalls/Gilberts.

Supply: Is Aden a supply point?
Aden>Karachi
Aden>Columbo
East Coast>Capetown>Perth
Frisco>Pearl Harbor
Seattle>North pacific
East Coast>panama>Tahiti>South pacific

Aden is a HUGE supply point after it opens in 1943. At least as much auto-supply from numbered convoys as Cape Town. Before that . . . I don't remember. I think it self-generates a fair bit, but it's RL months since I had it open up to the Med.

Aden to Colombo, yes.
The others yes too. Why would you use Seattle for supply but not fuel? North Pac doesn't need much of either unless you're mounting a huge effort through the Aleutians.


WO 0/0

[Nomad]

I use Seattle for fuel and supply to the North Pacific.

I use San Francisco for suppy, fuel, LCUs, and Air units to Pearl Harbor.

Pearl Harbor then supplies everything near it.

I use Cristobal and not Balboa - Balboa has a size 4 port maximum and Cristobal has a max size 7 port plus 50 Naval Support.

Aden has no real supply until after it opens in mid 1943.

The reason I use SF for shipping everything is subs. I can use all of my Naval Search and ASW air and ASW TFs all based at SF. I then use heavy escorts and large TFs to get by the sub line. ( Sometimes I see 5 subs within 4 hexes of SF )