Carrier Battle in '45

[TheElf]

OMG look at those losses!!! 132 Hellcats and they shoot down 7 Zekes! It's broken!!!!

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: TheElf

OMG look at those losses!!! 132 Hellcats and they shoot down 7 Zekes! It's broken!!!!

they´ve probably shot down 14 as the combat report usually underrates the losses by around 50%... if something is broken then the combat report in this case...[;)]

[sfbaytf]

It was a nice counterstrike and closes the carrier loss gap, but the edge in that department still goes to the Emperor. Blasting the CA and DD's is almost as useful, in fact the last month or 2 quite a few of the killer D class escorts have been sunk and that's going to be a big help for the subs.

Yesterday Manila fell so Ive now gone ahead in points for the first time. Have some clean up work to do-take Clark Field, but most of the Phillipines are in my control. The airfields in Luzon have been functional for some time.

The question now is where to next. There are a few logical choices...

In the meantime the allieds have begun Operation Kill and Cull. Began a couple of days ago. B-29s that were flying only low level night bombing mission on cities, suddenly flew daylight missions on Japanese airbases. Initial reports indicate 485 Japanese planes were destroyed on the ground from the first 2 days of the operation. The next 2 days netted 58 more planes destroyed on the ground. P-51s are flying aggressive fighter sweeps and some have gone on low level strafing missions against airbases.

The goal is to cull the Imperial airpower to managable levels.

[rroberson]

Nice report guys...Im of the mind that if I know my opp is up and about I fire that turn off pretty quickly (I have one game where if we dont get three off in a day its a surprise), but when I know he is done for the nite I will spend some hours focusing on moving my units about.  I like quick games an awful lot.
 
 

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

2 day turns, 2 turns a day and 5-7 on the weekend. I have a full time job. I don't over analyze.

ORIGINAL: BLurking
LOL. If I spend over an hour on a turn, it's considered a 'deep thinking' move.
I just move around the map occasionally, but let events dictate where to focus.

CS convoys are your friend, and messing with production too often will lead to disaster for the Empire.

It is, after all, a Strategic wargame...

men after my own heart. [:D]

[Venividivici10044]

Nice game, do you have any AARs up?

[sfbaytf]

No AAR. Would have been nice as we had some interesting battles-around Babeldaob there was a Jutland like surface duel. We also has a duel with superbattleships. If we did an AAR probably wouldn't have gotten this far.

Anyway there is an apparent bug in the Burma area. There have been times when I couldn't move my units to a hex and had to click on a hex further out before the computer would say it's a valid move. My opponent is having issues on a larger scale. I've now stopped all air attacks in Burma and began moving my units back. I've also offered a truce. I didn't realize it was this massive a problem for my opponent. I was pummeling his troops from mass air attacks.

We're hopefully getting close to the end. I sent my turn last night and the cats out of the bag...an Allied Army is invading Okinawa. I had a choice of playing it safe and going for Taiwan first, but the apparent success of the air attacks on Japanese airfields has worn down Imperial airpower to manageable levels. Carriers caught a fairly large transport TF off of Nago and sent a bunch of transports and escorts to the bottom of the sea. Don't know if was unloading supplies or troops I presume from China to reinforce Okinawa.

Don't expect a quick outcome. Just have to play it day by day...

[USSAmerica]

ORIGINAL: BLurking

ORIGINAL: Miller

How have you got to 45 so quickly? Do neither of you have jobs?[;)]

LOL. If I spend over an hour on a turn, it's considered a 'deep thinking' move.
I just move around the map occasionally, but let events dictate where to focus.

CS convoys are your friend, and messing with production too often will lead to disaster for the Empire.

It is, after all, a Strategic wargame...

BL, I wish I could make myself crank out turns at that pace. [:D]

Congrats on what looks like a very fun game, guys.

[sfbaytf]

Opponent played a superb game and he managed to hold places longer than Japan did in real life. I'd be lying if some of the reason for invading Okinawa now instead of taking Formosa first is to have the allieds hit at least 1 place before the actual date in real life.

The carrier battle mentioned in this post had me really scared- especially when my opponent mentioned "The Eastern Fleet has another target in it's sight" I was sweating bullets as I feared he had the invasion fleet I was assembling for the invasion of Okinawa in his reach. Had he managed to torch that, it would have really changed the game. There was no protection except for a few CVEs. On board were some of my best and most experienced divisions that had battled through some of the toughest battles and had many victories under their belt. All of my other carriers were sitting in port.

My opponent came within a split hair of really causing me a lot of heartburn and headache.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

Don't expect a quick outcome. Just have to play it day by day...

You mean two-day by two-day..... [;)]

[sfbaytf]

Lady luck once again shines on the Alligator Fleet. After nearly avoiding disaster from the carrier battle mentioned above which could have easily sent 90% of the allieds APA capacity to the bottom and 360,000 of the most experienced and battle hardened troops to the bottom of the sea, the Alligator Fleet dodged another bullet.

After unloading on Okinawa, a general pullback was ordered. The fast carriers retreated. The surface combat task forces covering the invasion retreated. The Alligator Fleet was suposed to retreat back alongside the fast carriers and surface combat fleets. To the horror of the Allied High command when the replay was run the entire Alligator Fleet was still off Okinawa unloading the few remaining supplies onboard a few ships. He vast majority of ships were already empty. The troops on Okinawa had no idea of what to do with the supplies. Spam was piling up and threating to sink the island.

The entire Alligator Fleet was sitting off Okinawa butt naked save for some CVEs, a few light cruisers and destroyers. The allieds waited for the counter attack from the air and sea. Fortunately none came and the next day the Alligator Fleet retired.

Another bullet dodged. The first carrier battle had it been followed up would have resulted in a modern day Salamis and the Emperor could be basking in the sunlight of victory.

The second allied miscue around Okinawa could have produced anoher Hakata Bay like victory.

Fortunately lady luck appears to have favored the allieds the past few weeks...

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 2 destroyed
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 10 damaged
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 6 damaged
SB2C-4 Helldiver: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged
TBM-3 Avenger: 9 destroyed, 63 damaged


Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 4 damaged
SB2C-4 Helldiver: 12 damaged
TBM-3 Avenger: 3 destroyed, 17 damaged

So much for the myth that late war flak will be more effective... With these kinds of results you may as well never bother even upgrading your ships flak packages.

BLurking can you show a screenshot of how many planes were shot down by flak for the day?

Jim

[BLurking]

Sorry, that turn is long gone - so I don't have the data. Flak losses were minimal, and late-war IJN flak is pretty pathetic. Meanwhile, USN destroyers routinely down multiple bombers when in TFs of 4 or 5 ships. Just can't compete with the proximity fuse.

Japanese fixed AA positions, on the other hand, are quite effective. It's definitely worthwhile to rest the units when the OOB can be upgraded and get a Theatre command HQ in range. The Allies have lost a ton of aircraft to flak traps, and Japanese losses are still at this date lower than that of the Allies.

Of course, my opponent is pretty ruthless when it comes to low level and strafing attacks on my troops - but suffers appropriately for his callousness...

[sfbaytf]

Most of my carriers haven't gone in for their last refit. Same for many of my other ships. That may be a factor. They are too busy. I'll check when I get a chance.

I just realized it was the IJN flak Jim was talking about...

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf
I just realized it was the IJN flak Jim was talking about...

My issue is with both sides flak actually. By 1945 75% of Japanese strike aircraft and 40%-50% of allied strike aircraft should be hit by flak and more than half of those hit should be downed by it.

Historically CVs had one good strike in them and then a much smaller much weaker follow-up strike after that. After that their airframes were pretty much all destroyed or too far damaged to be used any time soon, so the CVs would withdraw.

That’s why the US started using CVEs to replenish losses for their carriers. It allowed the battle fleet to remain on station for more than a day or two.

The game far underestimates the effect of flak. Historically about half the planes destroyed by enemy fire went down due to flak. Probably closer to 75% of Japanese planes, but there are no reliable records to confirm it.

Jim

[BLurking]

Jim,

Here's the game summary, including flak losses.

Brian

[Miller]

Going from memory I think my ships managed to shoot down 60 USN a/c in the last carrier battle in my game in late 43, so upgrades do have some effect.

[BLurking]

Durability of Allied aircraft increases as the war goes on, so I think there's a bit of diminishing returns at some point. Imperial aircraft, on the other hand, appear to be made of rice paper...