Soviet strategy by the numbers

[Tempest_slith]

Below are some handy numbers for the beginning Soviet to know when mulling over tactics:

11: The most number of times a typical Soviet arty can fire in the 20 turn game. Soviet HQs do not give out arty attack bullets as part of normal supply, and arty must refit to regain ammo. Blazing away every turn is not an option; it pays to generally limit attacks to clear terrain and a higher value target (a potential counterattack hex, a 1-step unit, armor, or a regiment without innate replacement steps). Another reason for prudence is the Soviet transition from 1 arty attack per hex limit to 2 arty attacks on turn 11; it's easy to not take much advantage of this bonus for widespread arty ammo depletion.

9 or 10: The number of hexes Axis mobile units can move through uncontested enemy controlled hexes a turn. This is handy in visualizing how far the Axis can move in the coming turn if the Soviet offers no resistance with a defense line. The easternmost objective cities are 70 hexes away from where the Axis will be at the end of turn 1 and there are 19 turns to go, so holding the Axis to at most an average 4 hex advance is in order.

6: The Soviet area of OPs variant to set up at game start and play the first few times as the Soviets. It is easy to muck up your HQ placement to maintain subordinate unit command range, and front line units that go out of command are generally bagged. This variant increases Soviet HQ command range/supply, and is recommended while the Soviet gets the hang of painless movement/placement of HQs.

3: The number of Soviet T-34 units. These jewels have a +3 shock rating and a 50/50 to hit with armor attack. Keep track of where they are and their attack supply state, and keep them out of the front line if possible so they have good movement for counterattacks. I learned early that Roger considered them a high priority target, so ensure they're well protected if in the front line.

2: The number of tactical shift hexes the Axis needs for a +3 combat odds shift. The odds shift for 1 tactical shift hex is only 1, so denying the Axis the second hex makes him compensate for the loss of the 2 extra combat odds shift by adding twice the defenders defense strength in attack strength. The Russian can, with careful placement of detachments, generally limit the Axis to the 1 tactical shift hex up and down the line.

4-1: The base Axis combat odds shift. The Axis mobile formations have a +4 shift, there is usually an elite unit in the combat for a +1 shift, and the Soviets will generally be dug in for a -1, or 4+1-1=4. Since the only other mechanism to increase the odds are tactical shifts for adjacent hexes or added attack strength, denying the Axis tactical shifts (defending behind rivers or detachments) forces him to compensate with significantly more attack strength to get to 8-1 (the minimum odds the Axis is generally going to attack at) on the Combat Results Table (CRT). See 2 above.

5-1: The sweet spot for Soviet counterattacks. 5-1 on the CRT has a 50/50 of inflicting 2 step losses and only a 50/50 of a retreat (lack of a retreat is generally a good thing, as the defending hex is still accessible for bringing up more units for a second attack). With an armor or two in the attack and their chance of additional hits, even a 4 or 5 step Axis stack is vulnerable to a double attack, and the Soviets can generally achieve 5-1 with favorable tactical shifts.

6-1: The ratio of victory points (VP) awarded for killed Axis units vs Soviet units. Although the total Soviet step loss required needs to be considered (it is doable but a siren's song to kill Axis units through low odds attrition attacks due to the considerable Soviet step losses incurred; the Soviet Army just seems to melt away), that's an attractive exchange rate for deciding to trade Soviet units for Axis. The Soviets labor under a similiar imperative to rack up VPs through Axis losses as the Axis does to take objective cities in a timely fashion.

All: Use the "Entrench All" feature new to ATD2. Never dig in a unit during the movement phase, as that uses up its action ability for the turn. This enables you to change your mind after initially moving it and do something different with it (move again, attack, take replacement). Use the F7 key to see that all your front line hexes are eligible to dig in (another new ATD2 feature), and make the "Refit all units" button selection (which also Entrenches All if set) the last thing to do in a turn.

[jjdenver]

6: The Soviet area of OPs variant to set up at game start and play the first few times as the Soviets. It is easy to muck up your HQ placement to maintain subordinate unit command range, and front line units that go out of command are generally bagged. This variant increases Soviet HQ command range/supply, and is recommended while the Soviet gets the hang of painless movement/placement of HQs.

I think that HQ placement is really tricky and I probably still get it wrong. Is there a good link, resource, video, or tutorial on this? Or can you explain further?

Also I'm still not clear with this version of the game about whether units can take attack supply from an HQ that is not their own HQ, or an HQ that is not even in their chain of command (i.e. can a unit from 10 pz take attack supply from 7 pz HQ? from 48 pz korp HQ? from 4 Pz Armee HQ?).

Also for regular (defense jerry can) supply can it come from any HQ or are there restrictions?

Thanks for the tips - great stuff.

[e_barkmann]

there's some videos I did a while ago on the basics of Kharkov HQ's here:

tt.asp?forumid=583

HQ command radius is covered off in the second tutorial.

Superior formations can grab Attack Supply from lower formation HQ's due to the old fashioned rule of 'rank hath privilege'. Defensive Supply can be received from any supply source.

I'm sure Tempest could provide more incisive info as required.

cheers Chris

[jjdenver]

[/quote]

Superior formations can grab Attack Supply from lower formation HQ's due to the old fashioned rule of 'rank hath privilege'. Defensive Supply can be received from any supply source.

Are you saying that attack supply can come from your own direct HQ, or from any HQ subordinate to your own direct HQ?

So given this actual chain of command from ATD2:

102 ID
^
|
AGC -> 2 Pz Gruppe -> 24 Pz Korp -> 1 Cav Div

102 ID could draw from AGC, 2 Pz Gruppe, or 24 Pz Korp
1 Cav Div could draw only from 24 Pz Korp (since 24 Pz Korp has no subordinate HQ's)

Is that right?

[henri51]

ORIGINAL: jjdenver

Superior formations can grab Attack Supply from lower formation HQ's due to the old fashioned rule of 'rank hath privilege'. Defensive Supply can be received from any supply source.

Are you saying that attack supply can come from your own direct HQ, or from any HQ subordinate to your own direct HQ?

So given this actual chain of command from ATD2:

102 ID

AGC -> 2 Pz Gruppe -> 24 Pz Korp -> 1 Cav Div

102 ID could draw from AGC, 2 Pz Gruppe, or 24 Pz Korp
1 Cav Div could draw only from 24 Pz Korp (since 24 Pz Korp has no subordinate HQ's)

Is that right?

That is what the manual says, and it seems to be right. However I have an additional question.

How does this reflect on the AO shown on the map? In other words, in the above example, would the AO shown for 102 be the total area of all of the eligible HQs, or only that of the immediate superior HQ? Logically it should be the former, so that a player would not be misled about where he could move.

If the player assumes that the AO shown is where he can safely move based on his immediate HQ and one of the other sub-HQs moves after the unit, he could find himself out of direct supply on the next move...So I guess the only total solution to this dilemma would be for the AO area to be shown in 2 different colors,one for the immediate HQ and another for all of the others, but I guess that could get complicated.

A possible solution for this would be to move all of the HQs BEFORE their sub-units, but this assumes that one knows where all of his units are going to go before he starts moving them and before he sees any combat results, which is totally unrealistic for my limited memory and imagination. Heck I sometimes forget where I am going just walking away from my office, so you can imagine when I have to move 300 units....[:'(]

BTW while I have the floor, I have finally understood (I think) how the double dice work; they work in opposite ways for combat units and for artillery: for combat units, when you get 2 dice, you get a step damage if EITHER one of the two dice is larger than the required die throw indicated. But in the case of artillery, for a step loss BOTH dice have to be larger than the indicated required die throw.[8|]

I'm getting a headache - and don't ask about the blue, green and red dice...[:-]

Oh yes, and all those changes were made to make the game simpler to play, they say...[:D]

Henri

OOPS I forgot another possibility: right-clicking on any hex shows a list of all of the HQs that give direct supply to that hex, so before moving to a hex you can check out whether or not your own HQ supports that hex.

[Tempest_slith]

Hi, Henri51

That would be complicated if the game mechanics worked like that, but you have some misconceptions about 3 separate game mechanics; supply, units being in HQ Command Range to receive HQ bonuses, and AOs.

Supply is independent of AO. and any unit can use supply from any HQ. An HQ will broadcast supply outside of its AO. but not its Command Radius (CR).

An HQ never has any effect on another HQs AO, subordinate or superior. Each HQ's AO is set at game start, then changes throughout game when its own specific trigger events occur (certain turn numbers, trigger cities taken by enemy), and its units always have its AO.

A subordinate HQ provides a superior HQ's unit X outside the superior HQ's CR its CR so X will still get HQ bonuses.

The mechanic for double die is:
A double die rolled in combat will have each roll's result applied from the CRT table (the same mechanic as a single roll but twice). For a double die arty attack, both roll's results must equal or exceed the indicated value for a hit.

Right clicking on a hex will show the HQs which include that hex in their AO; supply is not considered.

[JSS]

ORIGINAL: henri51

How does this reflect on the AO shown on the map? In other words, in the above example, would the AO shown for 102 be the total area of all of the eligible HQs, or only that of the immediate superior HQ? Logically it should be the former, so that a player would not be misled about where he could move.

The AO for 102 ID is that of the HQs it is assigned to (in the example, Army Group Center).

[henri51]

Thank you JSS and Tempest for clearing that up. Indeed I am sure that I am not the only one that has confused supply radius with AO and with command radius. [:'(] It is hard to get away from the old conception that HQ radii correspond to supply.

Henri