Amphibious invasions

[macgregor]

Can someone explain the best way to do this? The game mechanics askew the normal logic. Is it better to move by boat next to the target and wait until the next turn? Are they even in supply at sea? Without any representation of a beachead, I imagine my force could be out of supply the moment they hit the beach unless I know precisely where my side's supply points are -which is not available in all scenario briefings(countdown to Infamy). Because a hex acts as an Allied supply point, does that mean it will act as an Axis one when conquered?

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: macgregor
Can someone explain the best way to do this?

Is there any other way besides moving up adjacent to your target and assaulting it?

ORIGINAL: macgregor
Is it better to move by boat next to the target and wait until the next turn?

It's probably not advisable to move next to your target and wait until next turn. During the enemy turn your stack might get attacked and destroyed.

ORIGINAL: macgregor
Are they even in supply at sea?

I'd like to know the answer to that one myself.

ORIGINAL: macgregor
Because a hex acts as an Allied supply point, does that mean it will act as an Axis one when conquered?

My understanding is that there are separate supply points for each side so that even though it acts as a supply point it might not for the opposite side.

[sPzAbt653]

ORIGINAL: macgregor
Are they even in supply at sea?

I'd like to know the answer to that one myself.

Yes, they are in supply while embarked.

[macgregor]

Thanks fellas. I'm still curious how to find my supply points in a scenario that doesn't list them. I know they're not necessarily the Allied ones. Game events list a couple of hexes, but how do I know they are supply points?

[macgregor]

Is it me? Or is it simply astounding that a game that proclaims to represent this kind of scope can survive this long without a way of supplying forces by sea. Last I checked, Matrix is an American company. There's not much in the 20th century and beyond involving Americans that can be effectively represented without some form of sea supply. Even crazier is that i don't think it will be addressed in 3.4 -whatever that is.

[Panama]

What scenario are you referring to?

[sPzAbt653]

To see where supply points are you can open the scenario in the editor and run a scenario dump. Existing 'Supply Points' are listed, and then you could search thru the event list to see where and under what circumstances supply points are placed/removed for side 1 or side 2. Don't want to do this? Tell me which scenario and I'll get the info for you.

I know what you are saying about sea supply, but it can be created by putting supply points in sea hexes, or by using sea supply 'roads'. In 3.4, supply points can be created using a percentage of full supply (mimicking sea supply thru ports with varying supply tonage capacity).

[macgregor]

I was referring to Countdown to Infamy and thank you sPzAbt653. If you can do it for me, my lazy self will greatly appreciate it. Though still you've explained how I an do it. So at some point if I don't hear from you I will give it a try. Thank you so much regardless.

After lengthy delay, I've moved through 'Plan Z' regardless. Though for the sake of future landings, the info will prove invaluable.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: macgregor

Is it me? Or is it simply astounding that a game that proclaims to represent this kind of scope can survive this long without a way of supplying forces by sea. Last I checked, Matrix is an American company. There's not much in the 20th century and beyond involving Americans that can be effectively represented without some form of sea supply. Even crazier is that i don't think it will be addressed in 3.4 -whatever that is.

At least that's a step farther than this:

ORIGINAL: macgregor

...A NAVINT value would solve everything....

Hopefully this means that you're slowly beginning to grasp the enormity of what you're asking for.

[macgregor]

Hopefully this means that you're slowly beginning to grasp the enormity of what you're asking for.

Well it won't solve the war in Afghanistan. It could help solve the way naval/air interception is handled in an a pbem game. The full fix required is much larger than just that though. I won't try to qualify that statement, but I do realize that. Loss settings would make the difference between engaging and running, and somehow comparative NAVINT values would interact. I think this is the kind of game where a more intelligent design could save lots of work and that could benefit by such impulsive,even incomplete thoughts provided they're monitored. Regardless of whether I see any response from the developer, I'm going to post my thoughts.

[macgregor]

While this thread is still fresh, I'd like to ask any of the more knowledgeable players if they understand how it seems after invasions, certain units seem to remain supplied even w/o a supply point. IIRC it happened to my Germans in Norway. Is there any data regarding this? As the Japanese in WW2, understanding this function would be most helpful.

I'll make due with this game as it is. If 3.4 is released as a free patch, I'll be most grateful even if it offers none of the improvements I've sought. The priority for this game development is apparently very low. And of that priority I think what I've requested will probably never happen with this game. Otherwise, why so much debate on it's necessity(when it's so much easier to simply lower our expectations). There seems to be a good deal of data regarding how the game functions now that isn't really explained, suchas this invasion supply. That could be a start. I wonder if scenarios will open with the new patch or have to be restarted?

[sPzAbt653]

certain units seem to remain supplied even w/o a supply point

I've formed the opinion that the side that is first during a turn has supply even without supply points. The unfortunate second side/player will not have supply unless a supply point is available. I don't know if this is totally true, but I've seen it so many times, and this is the only explanation I have come up with so far.


Edit : For the record, this is not true, as proved in posts below.

[Panama]

ORIGINAL: macgregor

I wonder if scenarios will open with the new patch or have to be restarted?

Was told running PBEM games will be able to be continued with the patch. However, I'm wondering how the new rules will effect current scenarios and how strongly they will impact current running PBEM games.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

certain units seem to remain supplied even w/o a supply point

I've formed the opinion that the side that is first during a turn has supply even without supply points. The unfortunate second side/player will not have supply unless a supply point is available. I don't know if this is totally true, but I've seen it so many times, and this is the only explanation I have come up with so far.

I'm sure there is some other explaination for what you've seen. Neither side's units can be in supply if they lack a line-of-communications (defined in the Manual @ 9.17) to a friendly supply point at the start of the game turn. Such units will, however, remain in supply for the rest of that game turn, even if moved to an unsupplied location during it - that's the only kind of "invasion supply" the game provides.

[macgregor]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
I'm sure there is some other explanation for what you've seen. Neither side's units can be in supply if they lack a line-of-communications (defined in the Manual @ 9.17) to a friendly supply point at the start of the game turn. Such units will, however, remain in supply for the rest of that game turn, even if moved to an unsupplied location during it - that's the only kind of "invasion supply" the game provides.

Thanks for that clarification. Still I'd swear my Germans were in supply from ...what? Kristiansaand? for like 2 turns until Oslo opened up. Maybe that is scenario specific(EA).

[secadegas]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

I don't know if this is totally true, but I've seen it so many times, and this is the only explanation I have come up with so far.

Definitively not true. There must be other explanation.


(sorry... overloocked Curtis answer)

[sPzAbt653]

Well, I did say it was an opinion, and we know what those are worth. So I took a look at some saves and found this one.

[sPzAbt653]

Now I can't figure out how to put two pictures in one post, but in this shot the units are removed and the supply is shown. No valid supply route that I can tell, but there is supply.

[sPzAbt653]

But maybe because this was a dual sea/air invasion, there is a lingering airborne supply effect?

[sPzAbt653]

Those shots are all from 8-9 turns after the initial assault. So as I suspect the airborne units are the reason, I re-ran the situation from the start. First with seaborne units only. No supply. Then next turn added a sea assault using air units (just to see if airborne units would get supply even if they didn't airdrop). No supply. Then next turn I dropped airborne units in enemy territory and linked up with the sea assault units. No supply. Now I have no opinion at all. At least initially I had a lame one (which doesn't help anybody but made me feel better).

The difference I see between the re-run and the initial one is that in the initial run, an airborne unit dropped first, and the sea assault took place on the next turn. Don't know if that could make any difference.