The Hunt for Red October - A Map

Redleg · Post by **Redleg** » Tue Oct 01, 2002 4:21 am

OK Stalingrad fans, I need a bit of help.

Attached find a draft of Red October. This is a small map that probably represents about 3 percent of the planned Stalingrad map.

Those who are interested in such a thing should download and examine this. Then post your reactions to it. Here.

This will be of great assistance to me as I plan to do this "for real".

This map is a draft and Red October will be done over again from scratch. This is a learning device. I need your advice and opinions.

Have fun.

Orzel Bialy · Post by **Orzel Bialy** » Tue Oct 01, 2002 4:27 am

I'll look over the map when I get home and give you some feedback...and I'll look around for some of my Stalingrad maps as well.
As is usual when it comes to our interests...I was going to give Stalingrad a crack too a while back but put it off as "having been done already."
Anyway, good luck with the project...if anyone can pull it off it would be you.

Redleg · Post by **Redleg** » Tue Oct 01, 2002 4:33 am

Thanks for the encouragement! I hope this works out.

The odds of success just increased because an extremely talented map-maker has joined in the project. Fradar will keep me on the "straight-and-narrow" path.

I'll be looking forward to seeing your comments.

Bing · Post by **Bing** » Tue Oct 01, 2002 9:45 pm

A submarine n downtown Stalingrad? What'll they think of next? Very clever those Ruskies.

Bing

Redleg · Post by **Redleg** » Tue Oct 01, 2002 10:00 pm

Bing, I don't get it. Please clarify.

Bing · Post by **Bing** » Tue Oct 01, 2002 11:16 pm

You must have been hiding somewhere. Tom Clancy became rich and famous with his book "Hunt for Red October" - the movie adaptation was a smash hit, with Sean Connery as the Soviet sub commander and Alec Baldwin as the US civilian who is going to get that Red sub into our hands.

The story involves a defection of a Soviet sub, the "Red October" - I believe it was supposed to have been an Oscar class. Fictional but plausible, one of Connery's finest performances.

"Hunt for Red October" was about as famous as you can get in the genre. You're kidding: You have to remember the novel and the movie.

Bing

Don Doom · Post by **Don Doom** » Wed Oct 02, 2002 1:18 pm

Close Bing, it was a typoon[try spelling this early in the morning:D ]

Redleg · Post by **Redleg** » Wed Oct 02, 2002 9:25 pm

Bing, Clancy, Submarine...... uhhh, now I see. LOL

I have started experimenting with a scenario on this map to get a feel for how to structure a battle for "Intensity". The Germans began closing on the factory district on 5 October with 3 infantry divisions and 300 tanks.... lots of room for different sorts of OOBs.

A panzer division was the main attacker against "Red October".

Soviets had a mixture (I believe) of Guards and green troops.

The map is set up pretty well for pbem as it is. But since the river is on the right, the Soviet player must take this into account insofar as reinforcements are concerned.

Another issue to be dealt with is battle damage. A choice must be made about whether to reduce the buildings to rubble before the battle begins (in the map) or let the players reduce it in the course of playing the battle.

Bing · Post by **Bing** » Thu Oct 03, 2002 8:05 pm

You know, the funny thing is I don't remember in the movie the Soviet submarine being depicted as a Typhoon class, though it might have been. I don't recall seeing the sauna-swimming pool - which was installed in at least one Typhoon class unit (basic crew comfort or amenities have never been a concern for Sov/Russ designers - take a look inside the turrets of their current MBT's and remember, no air conditioning). I don't have the novel so can't check that.

But I do have everything Larry Bond and his elves have published for paper Harpoon4 - a scenario which parallels "Hunt for .." has been done and the Soviet sub is - an Akula class! An attack sub, which is like night and day compared to a Typhoon or Oscar class.

Go figure. Did you get the Typhoon designation from the novel? I haven't watched the movie in some time, been busy with carrying on Jamie Woods work on modern WAW - MOWAW. We're having fun.

Bing

RockinHarry · Post by **RockinHarry** » Sat Oct 05, 2002 9:22 pm

Originally posted by Redleg
Bing, Clancy, Submarine...... uhhh, now I see. LOL

I have started experimenting with a scenario on this map to get a feel for how to structure a battle for "Intensity". The Germans began closing on the factory district on 5 October with 3 infantry divisions and 300 tanks.... lots of room for different sorts of OOBs.

A panzer division was the main attacker against "Red October".

Soviets had a mixture (I believe) of Guards and green troops.

The map is set up pretty well for pbem as it is. But since the river is on the right, the Soviet player must take this into account insofar as reinforcements are concerned.

Another issue to be dealt with is battle damage. A choice must be made about whether to reduce the buildings to rubble before the battle begins (in the map) or let the players reduce it in the course of playing the battle.

Yes.. a real Stalingrad map needs lots of battle damage to be halfway credible! I found your map looking way too peaceful in this regard!

There´s a shape file that contains lots of already damaged factory building files, so you actually don´t need to use much of the "cratering" to get the desired effect!
It´s Ter29(z4) Multihex buildings (0 - Ind.) shape file.

There´re also nice large factory complexes in Ter84(z4) Multihex b. large factories ( 4 - Use1 ) file.
________
Harry

Redleg · Post by **Redleg** » Sun Oct 06, 2002 3:34 am

Even more important than "eye candy" battle damage are two things:

1. The way that armor can drive through buildings of all types with impunity. This means that some mechanism has to be used to keep armor under control.

2. The damaged buildings that are turned into rough terrain. A city may as well be a giant field of rough hexes divided by roads unless this is taken into account.

Personally, I think the battle damage and the icons which are supposed to look like battle-damaged buildings are quite unsatisfactory. But it may be all that is possible.

Since I shy away from playing scenarios that use a lot of battle damage (I don't like the way they look), I am reluctant to create such a map myself.

I am still working on this with a test scenario to see what might be possible. The test scenario is playing quite well and driving tanks through buildings has been made either impossible or very dangerous. Like most things SPWAW, this takes time.

The Hunt for Red October - A Map

The Hunt for Red October - A Map

Redleg....