The AI races unique technology. The ways to acquire it.

[Interesting]

AI initiative:

They offer it to you, it start costing over a million credits, and then it gradually reduces as you get stronger and they get weaker.


Player initiative:

You start trade negotiations and try to buy it from them.


But even when the player takes the initiative, they might not sell it, for no ammount of credits/resources.
Here it gets complicated, I tried to get the Ackdarian unique technology, and it said it costed aproximatelly 1 million credits and I kept offering them more and more money and they kept refusing. Eventually I offered everything I got 40 million, thats 40:1 rate of trade, and they refused.

These, 40 millions could have changed their lifes, made them the most rich civilization in the World, end the war, and everything, but they refused.

Then I tried to make them my allies, got the reputation to +80 or something, and even had a free trade agreement, tried to buy their technology again, just to test... and nope.



So this topic is to discuss "strategies" to buy other races unique technology. What have you tried that worked or didnt worked?

[BigWolfChris]

Erm... the cheapest way is too just research it yourself
AFAIK, they aren't unique technologies, it's just some races have access to certain tech further down the tree early

[Cindar]

Yeah, it seems they will only trade you unique tech when they are the ones to directly offer it. Even if they offer you X for 1 million, once you go into the trade screen they will refuse again no matter how much you overpay.

ORIGINAL: BigWolf
Erm... the cheapest way is too just research it yourself
AFAIK, they aren't unique technologies, it's just some races have access to certain tech further down the tree early

Well... sometimes I have technology that is worth 3-5 million combined even when I'm only a third down the tech trees. It would be nice to get the tech 20-25 years early. Especially when the empire's I am dealing with are supposed to be my allies. Actually reaching the end of the tech tree all on your own takes forever, you will probably have the entire galaxy conquered by then.

[Krelos]

It's also important to note that the special techs are NOT all better than the regular ones.
The Torpedo, Shield and Reactor techs are worse than the top level normal ones.
I use the editor to make sure I never get them because of the way the ship design list shows the most recent tech, not the best.

[taltamir]

ORIGINAL: BigWolf

Erm... the cheapest way is too just research it yourself
AFAIK, they aren't unique technologies, it's just some races have access to certain tech further down the tree early

you cannot research RACIAL technologies.

I found that the AI will not sell it to you for any price if you initiate it... I just try to have ~3 million in cash and wait for any sale offer they make...

also it helps if you foster there being LOTS of empires around... sometimes it pays to ensure that a neutral colony becomes a 1 colony empire, or that there is civil war etc... and don't finish off an empire (or let others finish it off) if it has yet to sell you their racial tech... once you got their racial tech they are fair game though.

[BigWolfChris]

Could you give me an example of a Racial Tech please, because I think we maybe on different wavelengths here

Personally, I'm referring to the "Special Technology" Part that is shown in the race description
These I'm pretty sure to be researchable, I have a savegame where my empire has researched EVERY tech, and I am pretty sure I can find all of the special tech components in my list, yet I refuse to trade technologies, meaning they must have been researched
Also, this savegame only had one empire other than myself, meaning the opportunity to trade such unique techs didn't actually exist

[Krelos]

Yeah, you can research them. They get tacked on to the end of their tech fields after the final most advanced one.

[taltamir]

Racial Techs (Race - Tech-Name - Tech-Type):
Ackdarian - TurboThruster ER7 - Main Thrust Engine
Boskara - Shaktur Firestorm - Torpedo (can attack ships AND bomb planets)
Dhayut - Velocidrive ST3 - Hyperdrive
Haakonish - Mega-Density Fuel Cell - Fuel Cell
Ikkuro - S2F7 Repair Bot - Repair Bot
Kiadian - ShadowGhost ECM 2000 - Countermeasures
Mortalen - Swift Vector 5000 - Vectoring Engine
Quameno - NoveCore NX-700 - Reactor Hyper-Fusion
Sluken - StarBurner XX-12 - Main Thrust Engine
Zenox - Megatron Z4 - Shields

I think I was able to research two of those myself (not sure)... but I am 100% positive that most of those are racially unique and can NOT be researched by anyone else.
Also, if you try sending a spy on a mission to steal tech it will not get those, and if you already recovered all their normal tech you will not have any "fields" to select to steal from (aka it doesn't even show up on spy missions)
the AI will not sell you that tech if you ask at ANY price whatsoever.

However, randomly the AI will offer to buy it for about 1.5 million in cash. (more if you have no already maxed out that tech tree)
Be aware that most of these are near the best in their class, but may have some drawbacks compared to the "ultimate tech" you can research normally... The TurboThruster ER7 is an exception, you can research better tech... the XX-12 engines are an example of being "off" with the speed increasing from 1700 to 1780 IIRC and yet the cost of operation increases from 5 to 7 and the static cost from 2 to 3. However at the end game you can afford to waste a little fuel (especially with mega-density fuel cells and ultimate reactors) which means the extra speed could still help. The firestorm is plain inferior to the ultimate torpedoes you research imao, and so on...
But its very very nice to acquire all those from all the AI empires and have "super ships".

[Fishman]

All these technologies are available as part of the normal research tree, usually as very last things. The races which get them as racials get to use them from the very beginning of the game in their starting designs. The one quirk of them, however, is that if you manage to acquire one of these special through trade, it will instantly max out ALL research in that field, giving you ALL of the items, even if the race that sold it to you does not! This is why it tends to be worth a ludicrous sum of money, and why the price falls as you near the end of the tech tree.

[Wade1000]

even if the race that sold it to you does not!

Odd... Is that working as intended?

[BigWolfChris]

Yeah, I knew you could research those, like I said I've had the entire tree researched, so I was thinking you might have been talking about someone else

But, as pointed out, the only real reason to buy them is so you don't need to wait so long
Then it comes down to individual opinions of if it's worth the money being asked

[Cindar]

ORIGINAL: Wade1000

even if the race that sold it to you does not!

Odd... Is that working as intended?

I'm sure its not intended, but its probably implemented so that you can't be at two places on the same tech tree at once. I suppose it makes a little sense that getting the hyper drive tech unlocks weaker hyper drives (why would you use them anyway?), but the countermeasure tech shouldn't unlock the other, non-countermeasure tech.

[taltamir]

ORIGINAL: Fishman

All these technologies are available as part of the normal research tree, usually as very last things. The races which get them as racials get to use them from the very beginning of the game in their starting designs. The one quirk of them, however, is that if you manage to acquire one of these special through trade, it will instantly max out ALL research in that field, giving you ALL of the items, even if the race that sold it to you does not! This is why it tends to be worth a ludicrous sum of money, and why the price falls as you near the end of the tech tree.

1. Actually they NOT available via the normal research tree. I maxed it out and didn't get them. I really don't know what you guys are talking about when you say you can research them.
I think MAYBE the repair bots and the novacore thing... but the rest I did NOT get to research (With humans) and I have maxed out the relevant tech trees.

2. It is NOT a quirk, if you get ANY tech via trade it includes all prior generation technologies with it. And it is priced accordingly. If you are buying a tech that you already partially researched, it is also priced accordingly. A tech you 99% researched will cost 1% of its value. A tech that includes 2 previous techs will include their price.

[Wade1000]

ORIGINAL: Cindar

ORIGINAL: Wade1000

even if the race that sold it to you does not!

Odd... Is that working as intended?

I'm sure its not intended, but its probably implemented so that you can't be at two places on the same tech tree at once. I suppose it makes a little sense that getting the hyper drive tech unlocks weaker hyper drives (why would you use them anyway?), but the countermeasure tech shouldn't unlock the other, non-countermeasure tech.

I mean that the AI opponent that has it and sold it to you does not get the same benefit of having the higher technology. He sells it to you and you get all the lesser advances under it also. The Ai is like, "What the hell? How do you instantly know all those previous advances when I am still reasearching them?"

[taltamir]

ORIGINAL: Wade1000

ORIGINAL: Cindar

ORIGINAL: Wade1000


Odd... Is that working as intended?

I'm sure its not intended, but its probably implemented so that you can't be at two places on the same tech tree at once. I suppose it makes a little sense that getting the hyper drive tech unlocks weaker hyper drives (why would you use them anyway?), but the countermeasure tech shouldn't unlock the other, non-countermeasure tech.

I mean that the AI opponent that has it and sold it to you does not get the same benefit of having the higher technology. He sells it to you and you get all the lesser advances under it also. The Ai is like, "What the hell? How do you instantly know all those previous advances when I am still reasearching them?"

Interesting point. this seems to be partially due to the way the tech tree is constructed. its not a tree at all. It is multiple tech LINES... each tech line is linear (I am not sure but i think it has a few randomizations, such as if you get high tech labs 200 or weapon labs 200 first.)
I just started a few new games and it seems you were correct about them not getting "prior" tech for free and having to research it manually. but when they sell you that tech it comes with all previous tech (which is the case for normal tech sales). The solution would be to give them all prior tech, there is no reason whatsoever for them to have developed engine 15 but not 1-14.
I also noticed that a lot more of the techs are not even close to best in class. the megatron shields for example have only as much shielding as tech 2 shields. But they have 1.5 recharge rate instead of 0.2. (which eclipses the recharge rate of the best shields in the game)

If the tech could be made more tree like, then you could give them all previous techs. (the reason it is needed is because some techs are pretty high up. repair drones tech 2 shouldn't come with colonization of any type of planet and all the other techs from the same tree, it should only be all "prior" repair drone tech)

[Wicky]

I noticed, that when you trade for a new technology, then you'll get all the inferior techs from that tree as well.
For example if you buy titan beam SE, you'll get concussion beam, shatterforce laser etc. if you haven't researched them yet.

So, this can be abused a little when the AI offers you for example repair bot sf7 for 2 million, assuming you have that much money.
I just buy the unique tech, and since the other empire will now have 2 million in cash, I sell it back back. Well, not exactly the same sf7 repair bot, but the technology which is just 1 place inferior, and will get me roughly a bit less cash back, like 1.9 million
Mind you, that the AI has the last tech in the tree, but not the tech 1 place inferior to it. It will only have repair bot sf7 and sf1, but not the hostile colonization module below, since 7 is their unique tech.
Basically, both of you will now have this single tree fully researched and you just traded 2 million back and forth with maybe 100k loss for you. Easy way to generate free tech research out of nothing!
I'd suggest making unique racial techs a separate post, and not tack them to the end of a tech-tree. thx

[Erik Rutins]

Some good points here, thanks.

[Fishman]

Well, they shouldn't necessarily be entirely separate from the tree, but they should be placed appropriately in the tree, rather than "always at the very end", so that the AI will use them appropriately.