!!!!! *%¤/#%/ !!!! Aircraft

[Bearcat2]

I don't understand how I am able to change the HQ by paying the PP and moving the units out of Japan and changing to the Nick 1a. Scen1, latest patch. I ran it 3 times, was able to pay the points and move the 2 units out of Japan to Chichi Ichi
Is there a random upgrade in air units? If I change the 5th; your right, it will not let me go to the 1a, only the 1c.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: P.Hausser


No, I have tested on 2 different PC's, and here is the test when doing it from scratch (7/41)




Squadron in orginal form:





Squadron after upgraded to Oscar (NOTE that KI45A is gone from Upgrade list)

If you swap this unit back to Nates, will you be able to choose the Nick then, or is it completely locked out until '43 no matter what you do?

[Wirraway_Ace]

ORIGINAL: P.Hausser


Actually, it seems as despite that this Aircraft Historically served in New Guinea, Burma and China in 1942, it in AE game it will be locked to a single restricted unit in Japan for 1942. (Both with PDU on and OFF)

I am facing Nicks stationed on Timor in Jul 42 in my Scen 2 game with PDU on.

I get the humble impression that the Matrix designers has done this with intention, as it applies to sevreal other "better" Japanese early war designs as well.

I believe your impression is generally correct. Upgrade paths for both sides (even with PDU on) are restricted so the aircraft mix across all active squadrons does not become too unbalanced. This may seem arbitrary, but remember that the Grisgby game design only allows one side to adjust production, so for the game to remain balanced, the amount a variation in the force composition has to be limited by some means.

[P.Hausser]

ORIGINAL: Shark7


If you swap this unit back to Nates, will you be able to choose the Nick then, or is it completely locked out until '43 no matter what you do?

This is the Picture after I downgrade the Oscars back to Nate's agian, note you can now see that BOTH the KI-45 alternatives has dissapered.

(KI-45A dissaperes if you change the 84th to Oscars, and you are then left with only KI-45B as an Option). WHEN / IF you change the Oscars back to Nates, then BOTH the KI-45 versions are gone.

So if you want those modern fighters in mid 42... then you need to keep the Nate in service until then..
It is my impression after playing arround with this now for quite a while that you are limited to only aircrafts,
(not counting units locked in Japan or the Special Attack Unit who will withdraw shortly after it arrives).

I checked the Squadron names who another poster presented above, after having checked all of them I did not find that any of them operates outside of Japan and are able to upgrade to the Ki-45a (Other then the 84th who I have mentioned above).


This is PICTURE after I changed back to Nates agian.

[P.Hausser]

ORIGINAL: Termite2

I don't understand how I am able to change the HQ by paying the PP and moving the units out of Japan and changing to the Nick 1a. Scen1, latest patch.

Are you able to use the example in picture a few posts above ?
(4th Sentai) Do you menage to Pay PP for the Permanentlly locked (R) Unit.. how do you do to get it out ?

[Wirraway_Ace]

ORIGINAL: P.Hausser

ORIGINAL: Termite2

I don't understand how I am able to change the HQ by paying the PP and moving the units out of Japan and changing to the Nick 1a. Scen1, latest patch.

Are you able to use the example in picture a few posts above ?
(4th Sentai) Do you menage to Pay PP for the Permanentlly locked (R) Unit.. how do you do to get it out ?

I don' think Termite2 is moving the 4th Sentai. I presume he has found at least one other Nate unit that is not permanently restricted that can upgrade to Nicks. My opponent apparantly found at least one similiar unit.

[pompack]

Scen #1 1031102a PDU on

As of sep42 I have the 5th Sentai with 42 Nick Ia in Burma and the 13th Sentai with 42 Nick Ia in the DEI. The 4th Sentai is restricted to HI defense but it will have 44 Nick by the time I need it.

So I got 84 Nick Ia into play in the Summer of 42 with no issues at all. I did not catch the 84th conversion; I will look into it and thanks [:)]

[eloso]

Couple of points:

The Nick is classified in game as a Figther-Bomber. The Nate is a Fighter. Even with PDU on, cross-class upgrading isn't possible unless pre-defined for the air group in the editor.

Once you, as the player, make the choice to upgrade to something else away from this pre-defined path, you lose the opportunity to upgrade to that aircraft type in the future. It was like this in WITP too.

Looking at the 5th Sentai in the editor the upgrade path is for the early version of the Nick. In AE, unlike it's predecessor, you can define multiple upgrade options for specific air units. See Below:



I suspect this is why the upgrade choice becomes the mid-war model Nick after you choose to deviate from the historical upgrade path.

I would say that this isn't broken, but WAD.

[P.Hausser]

ORIGINAL: pompack

Scen #1 1031102a PDU on

As of sep42 I have the 5th Sentai with 42 Nick Ia in Burma and the 13th Sentai with 42 Nick Ia in the DEI. The 4th Sentai is restricted to HI defense but it will have 44 Nick by the time I need it.

So I got 84 Nick Ia into play in the Summer of 42 with no issues at all. I did not catch the 84th conversion; I will look into it and thanks [:)]

How did you do? Mine 13th looks like this.
Only the 'C' Nik in list..

[Bearcat2]

I am changing the HQ of the 5th[Tokyo, 1st Air R] & 13th[Osaka 1st Air R] and flying them out; both can upgrade to Nick 1a's.
Sorry, I have never figured out how to post screenshots.

[pompack]

ORIGINAL: P.Hausser

ORIGINAL: pompack

Scen #1 1031102a PDU on

As of sep42 I have the 5th Sentai with 42 Nick Ia in Burma and the 13th Sentai with 42 Nick Ia in the DEI. The 4th Sentai is restricted to HI defense but it will have 44 Nick by the time I need it.

So I got 84 Nick Ia into play in the Summer of 42 with no issues at all. I did not catch the 84th conversion; I will look into it and thanks [:)]

I really don't know, but it was not difficult. Two of the three units would convert right away IIRC. The third had detachments with different a/c but once all converted to Nates they merged and the conversion to Nicks was thre. Unfortunately I don't remember which one had the strange detachments but it wasn't difficult to convert all of them. I elected to not convert the 4th since it is restricted to Formosa/HI and I decided to keep a Nick reserve for now; however the option is there (I just checked) to convert at any time. I was very careful to keep the units with the original assigned a/c until I was ready to convert to Nicks since I had noted before that cross-upgrades are a one-time thing and disappear if you upgrade to any other path. Sorry I can't be more help.



How did you do? Mine 13th looks like this.
Only the 'C' Nik in list..

[timtom]

Evidence is conflicting on the 16th Hiko Sentai.
 
The Ki-45 is listed as unit equipment in Rene Francillon's "Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War", Don Thorpe's "Japanese Army Air Force Camouflage and Markings World War II" and Peter Scott's "Emblems of the Rising Sun".
 
The Ki-45 is not listed as unit equipment in Richard Bueschel's monographs on the Ki-48 & Ki-67 or in Akimoto Minoru's brief unit bio in the 11/77 issue of Koku-Fan. Hata & Izawa's "Japanese Army Air Force Fighter Units and Their Aces" doesn't even include the 16th.       
 
In the best tradition of post-war aviation literature, all of the above are unannoted, making it difficult to establish interdepence of sources. However on balance the above in toto has lead to the conclusion that the use of the Ki-45 by the 16th Hiko Sentai was probably incidental, hence the -> Ki-48 -> Ki-67 upgrade path.
 
It's notable that on the lists of day-to-day operations on aviation author Håkan Gustavsson's website on the "Sino-Japanese Air War 1937-45", the 16th Sentai is only mentioned in connected with either "light bombers" or the "Ki-48" with the single exception being the table on 5th Air Army's operational strength as of 13/11/44, which lists the strength of the 16th Hiko Sentai as "20 light bombers and two twin-engine fighters".
 
 http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/sino-japanese-1944.htm
 
 
The 21st Hiko Sentai was formed from the 84th IFC. The 84th will rename and resize to a two- chutai TOE at the appropriate date. 
 
By and large the OOB on IJAAF fighter units are based on Hata & Izawa. They do not list the Ki-45 as unit equipment of the 70th Hiko Sentai, hence the absence of this particular a/c on the units upgrade path.
 
Should our esteemed members hold evidence to overturn any of the above, they're by all means invited to present same.     

Perhaps the OP could be helpful by listing the J2M & N1K units which are currently missing from the OOB?

[Zemke]

I for one would rather see all historical units included in the game, lets try and get the OOB as correct as possible. House rules can be used to sort out any play balance issues or if the dev want, lock some units into a predefined upgrade path, but then that is what having PDU off does anyway. I am just trying to throw out some ideas, while still getting the best OOB possible for all sides.

[treespider]

-[:)]