Da Big Babes Update

[JWE]

DaBigBadBabes is really turning into the eggplant that ate Chicago. There’s so much, and the more we do, the more we find that we ought to do. It has turned into a completely different game. The system works well up to our expectations, but it is unplayable by the majority of gamers. It has always been a concern that most people would never get to see the benefits … I mean, who would really play this except for pros and really serious grogs. Nobody wants to hear – oh, well, if you were a military professional, or a military historian, you would know what to do – that’s arrogant in the extreme. But if the system is slanted that way, there’s gonna be a big disconnect and unhappy/offended people.

Then MO Osterhaut sent me a note and said – you know, we could import the basics of DBBB into BabesLite and make a Babes Medium, that’s playable with the AI tools, and can get people sensitized to stuff that will happen with DBBB, and here’s some files that my brother Peter and me put together and let me know what you think.

Um … err … gosh … ok … well, damn … I mean, if we weren’t so smart, we woulda thought of that … um … Freaking Brilliant !!! Woof !!!

So there’s going to be a Babes Medium – think we may want to change the name of DBBB, because BabesMed will become the sine qua non for generally playable scenarios under the publically released AE Game executable files. Think we may call the already released versions, Babes Lite (as we have), and call the new versions ‘Da Babes’. Gonna have to think of a new name for DBBB.

[treespider]

This is a rhetorical post correct?

[chesmart]

Way to go John!

[cantona2]

John

Do you reccomend a separate AE install for Da Babes, ala CHS in Witp?

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: JWE

Think we may call the already released versions, Babes Lite (as we have), and call the new versions ‘Da Babes’. Gonna have to think of a new name for DBBB.

Suggest: Baby Godzilla

[eloso]

ORIGINAL: JWE

DaBigBadBabes is really turning into the eggplant that ate Chicago.

This is shocking news! I hadn't realized I was stuck in some sort of Italian dish. [:'(]

[drw61]

Cant wait to see this one, Thanks for the update.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: JWE

Think we may call the already released versions, Babes Lite (as we have), and call the new versions ‘Da Babes’. Gonna have to think of a new name for DBBB.

Suggest: Baby Godzilla

Das Zygote

[Kitakami]

Brilliant thoughts are generally simple. This is one such!
Waiting For the Medium version with anticipation.
 
Also...
 
Many thanks!!!

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: cantona2
John

Do you reccomend a separate AE install for Da Babes, ala CHS in Witp?

Not necessary. It's just scenarios and additional ship art. We tried our best to make it completely transparent with respect to the stock game install.

[JWE]

Here’s a beta taste of what Babes Medium will look like. Here’s what MO has done so far. It is only for the US and Japan. The rest of the Allies will follow, but not today. Only two files, wpd029 and wpl029. Just drop them into a Babes scenario and renumber.

A lot of AI cheats that were put in the TO&Es ( Eng units with ‘shadow’ AvSup, BFs with ‘shadow’ NavSup and AvSup, general units with ‘shadow’ Sup) are all gone. We don’t like cheats.

Because this is anticipated as an AI compatible scenario, the main OOB was not modified. The components of the OOB, however, were heavily modified.

Devices: way big modified to conform squad units to the original LC/firepower paradigm – goes back to the original squad definitions. Eng squads modified in accord with code allowances with respect to size, assault capability, fort reduction capability, and build capability. In Da Zygotes (DBBB) these will be more sharply delineated.

LCUs: Both US and Japanese Division/Regt size units are restructured to conform to the original relative Assault Value, the original relative Firepower value, and the original relative Load Cost value.

Eng: Highly nerfed for Japan, and somewhat nerfed for the US. Scenario contemplates a higher degree of difficulty for building stuff. Many Japanese so-called Eng Squads are worthless and comprise Korean and Chinese laborers, for the most part.

AvSup: Highly nerfed for Japan, and somewhat nerfed for the US, both in terns of number of units, and available AvSup per unit. These need to be examined at the BF/Bn/Coy level.

NavSup: Nerfed for Japan and expanded somewhat for the US, but the number of units on both sides are reduced and need to be examined at the Bn/BF level.

So some of you have your head screwed on right, try it out. MO is a very patient and painstaking individual so if there's a blivet, he'll try to dial it in.

[drw61]

Thanks, I cant wait to try this one

[Kitakami]

Downloading... and beginning to check the data files... I am going to bed late tonight

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Kitakami
Downloading... and beginning to check the data files... I am going to bed late tonight

This should make it easier [;)]
Got a data dump from MO, saying what he did. Here’s the top level description of Babes Medium, so far.

The OOBs for US and Japan didn’t change – a few things added, but things are still in their same OOB slots, with the same commanders, HQs, dates, base locations, etc.. so the AI knows where to find them. US Additions were USMC MAWS, and MAGs as HQs, US Naval Districts as HQs, USN Advanced Fleet Base Forces, USN Base Maint Bns (replaces and expands the Port Svc Det units), US Army Boat & Shore Eng Regts (replaces and expands on the old Amphib Brigades. Lots more could have been added but there weren’t enough contiguous slots, without compacting. Compacting would mean moving lots of slots and would wreck the AI.

TO&Es for just about everything were changed (but didn’t mess with armored units, yet, too much of a pita). Since it doesn’t matter to the AI, TO&Es are moved around a lot, and unit types grouped together for easier reference. Unused TO&Es got removed. Devices (mostly squads) got modified, moved and grouped too. Many new Engineer types with different data content to give different capability. Some can only build, some can build and reduce forts (but not assault), some can build and assault (but not reduce forts), some can do all three, some can’t do any of them (engineers in name only). Japan gets lots of Eng units filled up with construction labor squads and only a few real engineering squads that can build anything.

Biggest thing is got rid of a lot of AvSup for Japan. Used to be Japan had 10900 AvSup squads for about 8000 planes (# of Sqdns x MaxCraft per Sqdn). Japan now gets about 7660 AvSup squads total (in deployable units – not counting major city airbases), to service its 8000 planes – not too bad but should be cut an additional 10% to around 6800. Best method seems to be to keep the same units, but reduce the number of AvSup squads per unit by about 10%.

USAAF currently has about 8050 AvSup squads for its 10300 planes; a pretty reasonable percentage, so will likely stay. USN and USMC have 2880 AvSup squads for about 3275 land based planes; again a reasonable percentage.

[Kitakami]

Indeed, that makes it MUCH easier
 
As a dedicated JFB, the new level of AvSup is going to be a big pita. The diminished engineering capacity almost as much, and will have to be very careful of where to send construction engineers from day one, if I want things to look half-decent by late 43/early 44.
 
Hmm... I am affraid that when a stable Babes Medium comes out, I'll have to find an opponent for a campaign game...  

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Kitakami
As a dedicated JFB, the new level of AvSup is going to be a big pita. The diminished engineering capacity almost as much, and will have to be very careful of where to send construction engineers from day one, if I want things to look half-decent by late 43/early 44.

I agree with your concerns. Have the same ones. Getting 'too' historical in the tech details just makes for a boring game. We are trying to highlight some of the Japanese capabilities, and when it comes to a choice, to give Japan the benefit of the break. We are the scenario Kamis, after all.

Japanese divisions, etc .. ALWAYS have a higher assault value than their Allied equivalents. The closest is a Japanese Cat-B division with AV of 416 and a Series-F MarDiv with AV of 402 (an Army division shows up at 380). Allies have more firepower, so it's a die roll race - can the Allies kill enough with pre-assault shooting to reduce the Japanese AV advantage? That particular balance is the biggie, so far as i'm concerned. That's the one that requires a major conceptual redo for everybody.

Don't think AvSup is going to hurt as much as you think. Going from 20% unuseable excess, to a realistic nominal, won't hurt that bad. As you say, dealing with it becomes an operational planning issue, but in raw terms, Japan has as much, or more, AvSup for their planes, as the Allies. Don't forget, there's a bunch of really big airbases in Japan, China, Singapore, Manila, Truk (kinda), that are not deployable, but represent major maintenance depots and training facilities. Even if all the IJAAF and IJNAF deployable support units are over-run and killed, there's still enough left in the Home Islands to realistically operate a poop-load of nastiness.

Same with engineers. Everybody gets nerfed a bit. This is in response to the perception that everybody can build LAX in a couple months. The idea is to slow down the pace of ops. Japan gets more engineers early, but they are less capable, so the Japanese player needs to be judicious as to where he builds things up. And, ok, Allies have a gazillion more engineers, but somebody has to 'take' a place with an appropriate airbase size to make it worth while for them to diddle. Well, ok, so Japan knows just where to concentrate the defense - or does she?

Whole idea about nerfing this stuff is to make life interesting for both sides. It's to give players options, but more important, to make players think about where they want to defend and what level of assets they want to defend with - and where they want to assault, and what level of assets they are willing to commit to continuing operations. Understand there is a tendency to look at stuff in a gestalt mode, but I tend to look at things in toothpaste mode; my 8oz tube of Colgate will lay the same blop of toothpaste on my toothbrush as a 32oz tube. It's time and materials and, more importantly, location.

Would really appreciate your thoughts. If you want, please send a pm with your email and we smile and dial till the cows come home.

Ciao. John

[witpqs]

Toothpaste Mode - I think that's a keeper! Thanks.

[vettim89]

Pardon me for my confusion but exactly what about the mod formerly known as DBB (DMFKADBB) makes it for Gronards only? Conversely, what is being omitted from DMFKADBB to create Da Babes medium?

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: vettim89

Pardon me for my confusion but exactly what about the mod formerly known as DBB (DMFKADBB) makes it for Gronards only? Conversely, what is being omitted from DMFKADBB to create Da Babes medium?

I believe the concept of generic base forces and HQ support was being done away with...and players would have to give serious consideration to the forces they wanted to assemble to achieve particular objectives.

[Mac Linehan]

JWE; Don -

Thank you for this unexpected Treat! I know it will be good...

Mac