Derelict fleets game breaker!

[taltamir]

ORIGINAL: Astorax

ORIGINAL: Davor

If you find a derilict ship and find the game to easy, don't use it. Either keep it as a musem piece ( Battlestar Galatica [:D]) or disband it right away so the AI can't get it, or leave it for the AI. Too bad when you find it, you can't sell the location to the AI empires.

You can - sell them your Galaxy map! Heh.

Which results in the AI IMMEDIATELY sending constructors to all derelict ships, colony ships to all the best planets, etc...
Really, giving the AI access to your map is a huge disadvantage and a big no no unless you are trying to handicap yourself...

ORIGINAL: Davor

I find it they put too many fuel tanks on a ship [:)]

there is no such thing as too much fuel.

[lostsm]

ORIGINAL: taltamir
Which results in the AI IMMEDIATELY sending constructors to all derelict ships, colony ships to all the best planets, etc...

i've yet to see the AI immediately reacting to new map data. it's obvious that they do send ships to deal with the new info they get from a map exchange and such, but colonizers/constructors already out in the field stay on their last mission

i've seen AI colony ships parked outside a colony they tried to race too for very long times

[Fishman]

ORIGINAL: Das123

4. In the meantime I'd swapped and sold Galaxy maps to AI players.

That was a mistaaaaake.

The Derelict fleet, however, is not a game breaker, simply because the AI very much knows how to handle them! If anything, the AI is quite competent when it comes to handling derelict objects and it is definitely not some advantage that the human has. Most likely the AI finds more of them than you do!

[lostsm]

ORIGINAL: Fishman
The Derelict fleet, however, is not a game breaker, simply because the AI very much knows how to handle them! If anything, the AI is quite competent when it comes to handling derelict objects and it is definitely not some advantage that the human has. Most likely the AI finds more of them than you do!

absolutely not! the AI handles derelicts like it would handle a resource. just because we see some AI constructors in the area doesn't mean the AI is smart about it, it's just that the derelicts have a high priority on the constructor AI list, kind of like tech bases at blackholes, neutron stars etc.

the AI will not divert military ships to protect the find. it will continue building caslon gas mines instead of going to repair derelicts. and on top of it all it will probably divert it's resources in a stupid war over disputed bases because of ice/volcano/ocean colonies instead of grabbing all those free ships.

it's gona get a ship or two, maybe three, but nothing compared to what even a newbie player can accomplish when finding the derelict fleet.

[Rustyallan]

What got me was when I found two locations with partially constructed world destroyers. The AI found them not long after I did and rushed in to start repairing them after I had already started.... 3 constructors piled on top of each other repairing one huge ship. [:@] I didn't get possession of either ship since I chose not to destroy relations with them. Whomever is doing the repair on them should gain possession though. (starts first, does the most?)

My general policy on derelict ships/fleets is to retire them as soon as I get them. If I'm lucky and find one or two really early on, I'll keep them around to take out pirate bases and track down "interesting points" on the map that are far outside the range of my other ships.

[lostsm]

world destroyers take so long, it's worth it to just let the AI do most of the work while you expand mines, then once the deathstar takes form shoot the AI out and finish the job. you can make immediate peace as well if anyone declares war after you shoot their constructors, it shouldn't cost much to buy peace for a world destroyer (most of the time anyway)

[taltamir]

ORIGINAL: Rustyallan

What got me was when I found two locations with partially constructed world destroyers. The AI found them not long after I did and rushed in to start repairing them after I had already started.... 3 constructors piled on top of each other repairing one huge ship. [:@] I didn't get possession of either ship since I chose not to destroy relations with them. Whomever is doing the repair on them should gain possession though. (starts first, does the most?)

My general policy on derelict ships/fleets is to retire them as soon as I get them. If I'm lucky and find one or two really early on, I'll keep them around to take out pirate bases and track down "interesting points" on the map that are far outside the range of my other ships.

bring a ship with weapons (no pulse area effect weapons though)... pause the game... move the mouse around that area where they are piled up until it tells you the target is the enemy ship and not the world destroy, click and watch it die while leaving the world destroyer intact. I think you can now use ctrl+click to select it more specifically.

just make sure you pause the game, and check the order of the ship you gave (maybe unpause and repause quickly). if it says "attack world annihilator" instead of "attach <name of enemy contructor>" pause, tell it to stop, and try again.

[Rustyallan]

bring a ship with weapons (no pulse area effect weapons though)... pause the game... move the mouse around that area where they are piled up until it tells you the target is the enemy ship and not the world destroy, click and watch it die while leaving the world destroyer intact. I think you can now use ctrl+click to select it more specifically.

just make sure you pause the game, and check the order of the ship you gave (maybe unpause and repause quickly). if it says "attack world annihilator" instead of "attach <name of enemy contructor>" pause, tell it to stop, and try again.

Except that I made the choice not to attack them. I doubt I'll make that choice again though. I'm mostly playing through right now leaving as much as I can on automatic to see how the AI plays... To me, it's a bug that I got there first, did the work, and the AI claims it because their ship happened to move near it right as it came online.

[Fishman]

ORIGINAL: lostsm

the AI will not divert military ships to protect the find.

Well, if he's not at war, there's no particular reason why he would, unless he's prepared to open fire. Besides, I don't, either, for this very reason: If you're not going to open fire, there's no point in pretending you are.

ORIGINAL: lostsm

it will continue building caslon gas mines instead of going to repair derelicts.

Well, you don't want to divert ALL your constructors, thus stalling your economy.

ORIGINAL: lostsm

and on top of it all it will probably divert it's resources in a stupid war over disputed bases because of ice/volcano/ocean colonies instead of grabbing all those free ships.

The AI's stupid war behaviors are unrelated to its ability to salvage derelicts.

ORIGINAL: lostsm

it's gona get a ship or two, maybe three, but nothing compared to what even a newbie player can accomplish when finding the derelict fleet.

You must not be seeing the same AI that I'm seeing. I've seen no less than 5 constructors I had to shoot down to claim a derelict fleet...in MY space! I can only imagine that the AI reacts more vigourly to things closer to him.

[Pocus]

I too think that derelict fleets are mostly an advantage given to the players, the AI don't react in time. There is a need to a very powerful guardian imho.

[Gertjan]

ORIGINAL: jscott991

ORIGINAL: taltamir

ORIGINAL: jscott991

Derelict fleets are incredibly cool and fun.

You're going to roll the AI with your own designs anyway. This isn't any more gamebreaking than allowing custom ships.

you could handicap yourself by turning on AI ship design and, on principle, never designing your own ship.

I would do this, except for the torpedo/bombard weapon "bug". Until the AI stops replacing torpedos with bombs, you really can't afford to let all ship designs be auto.

Plus, they don't put enough fuel tanks on ships and they don't put energy collectors on escorts.

I also prefer to keep ship design automation on. I usually give the ships some additional fuel and a solar collector. This reduces the fuel micromanagement substantially. Isn't the bombardment issue now resolved in update 1.04? I only wonder if adding these things doesnt lead to problems with insufficient power for weapons or engines. How can you tell?

[taltamir]

ORIGINAL: Rustyallan

bring a ship with weapons (no pulse area effect weapons though)... pause the game... move the mouse around that area where they are piled up until it tells you the target is the enemy ship and not the world destroy, click and watch it die while leaving the world destroyer intact. I think you can now use ctrl+click to select it more specifically.

just make sure you pause the game, and check the order of the ship you gave (maybe unpause and repause quickly). if it says "attack world annihilator" instead of "attach <name of enemy contructor>" pause, tell it to stop, and try again.

Except that I made the choice not to attack them. I doubt I'll make that choice again though. I'm mostly playing through right now leaving as much as I can on automatic to see how the AI plays... To me, it's a bug that I got there first, did the work, and the AI claims it because their ship happened to move near it right as it came online.

I see now, yes this is an issue that needs correcting, even if you can work around it, it shouldn't have happened.

ORIGINAL: jscott991

ORIGINAL: taltamir

ORIGINAL: jscott991

Derelict fleets are incredibly cool and fun.

You're going to roll the AI with your own designs anyway. This isn't any more gamebreaking than allowing custom ships.

you could handicap yourself by turning on AI ship design and, on principle, never designing your own ship.

I would do this, except for the torpedo/bombard weapon "bug". Until the AI stops replacing torpedos with bombs, you really can't afford to let all ship designs be auto.

Plus, they don't put enough fuel tanks on ships and they don't put energy collectors on escorts.

This has been resolved in 1.0.4.4
Shaktur Firestorm is now a seperate entity, with the proper torpedoes being considered the ultimate torpedo, and the auto design puts a few nukes and a lot of torpedoes and keeps the two seperate.
Also, you say you can't afford it... the AI you are fighting has crippled ships with nukes instead of torpedoes, so you fight it with custom designed ships?
Its about fairness... is this the best ship you can design? no its really reeally bad...
is this ship the same as what the AI is wielding in the same tech level? yes, yes it is. So that is why I use it.

Well... depending on my mood of course. I might use my own designs to wipe the floor with him for a while.

[jscott991]

Having bombs on ships is really risky.

By "afford" I meant because of the reputation risk in destroying a planet.

[taltamir]

ORIGINAL: jscott991

Having bombs on ships is really risky.

By "afford" I meant because of the reputation risk in destroying a planet.

ah yes, certainly I Agree with you there... I don't think the AI has used them yet for my ships, and when I gave a command order it didn't actually bomb.. I Think there is a safety of sorts you need to bypass... but I could be wrong.

[Pocus]

All your ships are belong to us&nbsp;[;)]

Now that I have started harvesting the derelict capital ships, the AI can't do anything to prevent me ... Perhaps I should refrain from repairing them, if I want a challenging game? [8|]

[lostsm]

ORIGINAL: Fishman

ORIGINAL: lostsm

it's gona get a ship or two, maybe three, but nothing compared to what even a newbie player can accomplish when finding the derelict fleet.

You must not be seeing the same AI that I'm seeing. I've seen no less than 5 constructors I had to shoot down to claim a derelict fleet...in MY space! I can only imagine that the AI reacts more vigourly to things closer to him.

5! this is something i'd like to see. i suppose if the derelict is right near them then the AI is actually reacting properly

[Storper]

ORIGINAL: jscott991

ORIGINAL: Davor

I find it they put too many fuel tanks on a ship [:)]

Really?

My default exploration and military ships are always having to run back for more fuel.

Hmm indeed. Pre 1.04 at least I always used at least twice the amount of fuel tanks on my ships just to get some decent range and reduce the drudgery of running back to port all the time.

[PDiFolco]

I don't agree to not using them because they're unbalanced : the game shouldn't give that easily such an advantage.
Either put some real guardians (kaltors are a joke), or put only 3-4 ships at most.

[hewwo]

ORIGINAL: PDiFolco

I don't agree to not using them because they're unbalanced : the game shouldn't give that easily such an advantage.
Either put some real guardians (kaltors are a joke), or put only 3-4 ships at most.

I think so as well. Or maybe make these ships very expensive to run, so there would be a significant penalty to having them. That would make for a more interesting strategic choice

[Nibelung44]

Still, giving the player the opportunity to put his hands on 30+ advanced ships is a game breaker... It just broke my game right now...&nbsp;[:o]