Can I See Effects of Fatigue?

[loyalcitizen]

Is the BFTB game manual going to have a detailed explanation of the effects of fatigue?

All too often I see dead tired units cheerfully fighting away and I have no idea how much better they would be fighting if they were rested.
When playing COTA and previous titles, I felt most like a real commander when I pulled a tired unit off the line for a day or two of rest.
But is it worth the effort? I have no idea.

It's been 3 years since I've played. Do the firepower stats of a unit visibly drop when fatigued? Did they in previous titles and do they in BFTB?
Do visible numbers tell us the story of the effects of fatigue or is it all in hidden modifiers?

[Lieste]

The 'strength' value on the unit icon drops noticeably with suppression or fatigue.

The units seem to be less effective at projecting firepower when dog-tired, they react slower - orders delay seems to get longer for tired HQ??, they also seem more brittle under fire.

[simovitch]

Lieste, as usual, is right.

From the manual:

Fatigue is also an important consideration in your planning. Tired units (i.e. those with high Fatigue) move slower, fire slower and less accurately and are more likely to have their morale and cohesion lowered. Fatigue increases as units move and to a lesser degree fire. Units moving by foot fatigue faster across rough terrain. They also fatigue faster than motorised units when moving. Units become fatigued quickly if they are force-marched (by selecting the Fastest move rate for a task) and when moving at night. Unfit units fatigue faster. Fatigue can be reduced whenever a unit is stationary. It is reduced quickest if they are ordered to Rest. Managing your units, so that they do not all become severely fatigued, can create an edge over the enemy that you can use at a critical point. The best way to do this is to maintain a reserve, which rests.

New for BFTB is extreme temperatures and resting in urban areas effect fatigue rate/recovery.

[JudgeDredd]

I presume resting in urban areas speeds up recovery??

[simovitch]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I presume resting in urban areas speeds up recovery??

Correct. You also have the option of setting the level that troops will automatically rest. Depending on the time of day and level of fatigue they might pitch tents at 6PM, but you can tell them "no rest" and they will keep plugging along. Better remember to reset back to "normal" rest settings or they will run themselves ragged through the rest of the scenario.[:'(]

[Lieste]

I have observed a reduction in displayed strength of some of the company teams from 3 to 1 purely from fatigue - given that this is imprecise there could be a reduction of just over 1 to just under 3 strength "values".

The documentation suggests that these values are Logarithmic - and working on the assumption of them being taken to the natural base 'e', this would give a ratio of between 2.7:1 and 20:1, with the 'face-value' at 7.4:1

These are pretty rough estimates, and to refine it would require some study (or inside knowledge ), however, my initial guess would be that full fatigue reduces performance by ~90% - it is something to avoid - especially if facing fresh formations.

[Arjuna]

Fatigue affects so many different things. It is part of the unitEffectivenessMod which factors in fatigue, cohesion, morale and training. The unitEffectivenessMod is used throughout the planning, reassessment and reaction code. Fatigue as a standalone modifier affects a plethora of things like unit and formation speed, rounds fired, deployment duration, firing effectiveness, target effectiveness, night effectiveness, casualties suffered, construction rate, morale checks, force allocation, eligibility to conduct assaults, stragglers, resting, reorging, slipping and cribbing of task times, orders delay...etc...etc.

I have done a search of the term "fatigue" in the code. It has over 6,000 hits and I have only covered the first few hundred. Take it as read that fatigue has a fundamental effect on the performance of your force.

[OlegHasky]

..And it is a impressive reflection of realistics, as its a base for humanoid beings operating in this 3dimensional reality[8D].
Such thing could be placed on a flag for COTA and the series [:'(]

[Arjuna]

[quotre]Such thing could be placed on a flag for COTA and the series[/quote]

Sorry Oleg...maybe it's the wine I have just consumed at dinner but I do not understand your last post.

[OlegHasky]

Ok, Arjuna,
I was talking about effects of faigture related to behaviour of humans reflected well in series. The realtions are so detailed, that the example of fatigure(and its effects) could act as a symbol of realism for the game..

does that done the job for you?[>:]

[Arjuna]

Yes, thanks.[:)]

[loyalcitizen]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna
I have done a search of the term "fatigue" in the code. It has over 6,000 hits and I have only covered the first few hundred. Take it as read that fatigue has a fundamental effect on the performance of your force.

I trust that you have modeled the effects of fatigue very thoroughly, but I still don't know how much of a penalty Fatigue actually is.
Can I get an example of HOW much worse off a unit at 50% fatigue is than a rested unit, using some rough, anecdotal percentages? Just a couple of examples off the top of your head so I get the idea. And I know that many times there are interlocking modifiers (commander rating, supply status, morale, etc), so just some easy ones if you want.

(Oversimplified) Example of what I am looking for:
A unit at 50% fatigue Moves between 20% - 40% slower than a fully rested unit.
A unit at 50% fatigue has its Orders Delay increased by 25% - 45%.
A unit at 50% fatigue has its Night Effectiveness reduced by 40% - 70%.

I know that WWII commanders didn't get numbers like these in the field manual. Instead, they lived with their troops every day for years on end, so they already knew these things. We don't have that "luxury."

[Lieste]

"Fighting strength" is reduced by an estimated 90%.

Orders delay can be tested by setting two (three) identical battalions with full (half) and zero fatigue on the map, then giving them identical orders while delay is in effect.
Move rate can be tested by using a no-delay period after start/arrival (at same time on successive days?) and timing the arrival at the destination of the units over the same terrain and route.
You can easily run these tests if this is the sort of information you are interested in, and others would be interested in your observations too

We have the luxury of running the same scenario multiple times, with minor variations such as this... which in some ways is better than an experienced commander could have - his engagements all have multiple significant variations in circumstances which can dominate over training/experience/fatigue etc..

[Arjuna]

I know that WWII commanders didn't get numbers like these in the field manual. Instead, they lived with their troops every day for years on end, so they already knew these things. We don't have that "luxury."

Well yes in some cases they did get to spend some time with their troops. But in many cases officers got appointed to a position at short notice and had to take them straight into battle without such shared experience. But regardless, that is just not how it works. My experience is that you make a note of how tired your men are and then you scale back expectations. It's not a science or exact calculation. You just allow more time and build into the plan some slack and monitor and adjust timings according to progress.

Anyway to give you some rough idea of the range of impacts, here are some:

• speed - up to 30% adverse effect for foot and up to 20% adverse effect for mot
• orders delay - up to 20% adverse effect
• firing effectiveness - up to 25% adverse effect
• target efectiveness - between 75 and 125%
• bombardment cas - up to 20% adverse effect
• rounds fired - up to 20% adverse effect
• night effectiveness - between +25% to -100% ( note this affects the prob of abandoning attacks at night and of stopping to rest at night )

[loyalcitizen]

Good points on the shared experience.
The numbers you shared are just what I was looking for.
Thanks!