OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR

[kevini1000]

Well at least you can see where the main Russian armor reserves are located.

Sath/Kevin

[kfmiller41]

If that doesn't stop you it should surely slow you down some. Pretty good massing of armor by the AI

[Flaviusx]

There's undoubtedly more of it lurking around. By this time, I believe, the Sovs had raised some two dozen tank corps and were just about to start converting some of them into mechanized corps.
 
Figure that maybe half of that is presently unaccounted for in the screenshots. I don't believe the rest can be written off as kills, either. Soviet armor losses have been relatively light in this game, a 3:1 exchange ratio with the Germans is highly favorable to the Sovs. (Pyledriver is kicking the crap out of the Soviet infantry, though, they're taking the big lumps.)
 
So where's the rest of it hiding at?

[PyleDriver]

(DAR) Well that thorn pocket on my left was taken out. Over 80k were there but my losses were high. The Soviets look to breakout of Tula...The Oka looks like a monster to cross. I hoped to cross it further east. Ahh...Model to the north, can he pull Soviet reserves there?

[PyleDriver]

(BAR) this is a level 4 overview of the Moscow area. There is still alot of pressure here. Granted Kleist got spanked, I guess they new the danger he poised, but its about spreading the field...The big problem playing the AI is that they can see me but I can't see them...Anyway this will get good. It's now or nothing...

[PyleDriver]

(DAR) 6th army pressed across the Voronezh River. Kleist will regroup and get resupplied. Voronezh looks doomed. The Soviets did a hit and run, which took me out of my time table. Kleist is not done, he's in prime postion...

[kevini1000]

Not withstanding too many surprises, the German position looks good. The AI is yielding some important ground. All the losses in just 2 months can't be good for the Russian's. These losses have to be much higher than historical. Even if Moscow doesn't fall the Germans have inflicted higher than historical losses on the Russian's and elimnated that big salient between AGN and AGC.

Sath

[Flaviusx]

Soviet infantry losses are quite high, but their armor losses are lower than historical. The AI hasn't been comitting it into battle at all up until now. (And I wonder if the latest AI tweak had something to do with correcting that.) Nor have we seen all of it. Though I note more tank corps are finally starting to show up near Moscow in the latest screenshots.
 
Whether or not Moscow falls the plan is better than the historical one by virtue of the fact that, well, it's not the historical plan. I mean, Stalingrad was a pretty epic boner in the annals of military history...
 
 
 
 

[kevini1000]

Ok how much armor did the Russian's loose during the first 2 months of the Blue historically and how much have they lost in this AAR during the same time period. Color me curious.

Sath

[Flaviusx]

Historically, they lost a lot. Two whole tank armies got creamed on the approaches to Stalingrad, and that's not including the Kharkov fiasco earlier on. This isn't well understood today, but Soviet armor bitterly contested the drive on Stalingrad before 6th army got into the city proper, constantly hitting the flanks. The Germans were slowed down, but smoked the Soviet armor, which greatly outnumbered them. Sovs didn't really know how to handle their armor well at this point, alas, and it showed. But they threw it in with wild and desperate abandon nonetheless. 

In this game the armor has been mostly absent. A few tank brigades here and there, but mostly just a bunch of grunts. Only now is it starting to show up on the front lines. The AI hasn't committed it to combat until very recently, and it should have around two dozen tank corps to play with during this entire period. (Assuming that the order of battle for the game is anything like the historical one, anyways.) I've been following this AAR for a while and have been wondering the entire time: "where are the Soviet tank corps at?" This business at Voronezh is the first serious counterstroke the Sov AI has tried.

Pyledriver showed a kill screenshot uptopic, and the exchange rate for the Germans was around 3:1 for armor. That's low. The infantry loss exchange rate is running double that. (And that's rather high.) That reflected the game situation a couple turns ago, so it might be different now, granted.

Edit: almost forgot, the Sovs committed a third tank army around this time, namely the 5th around Voronezh. Presumably, that's the one Pyledriver ran into. 1st and 4th were the ones near Stalingrad. The 5th tank army counterstroke alone involved 1500 Soviet tanks, and 7 or so tank corps in an action during early July.

[PyleDriver]

(AAR) Rostov, and the Soviets are playing hardball. They really don't want to give up the north-south rail I want. I'm bringing in a Rum division to occupy the island at the mouth of the Don to free up the Jager divison there for other use...I really hate having to use Axis minors at the front, they suck badly. I will add they do a fine job slapping women and children around, I've only had one partisan outbreak in 10 turns...

[PyleDriver]

(AAR) Kleist's XL PzC was beat up badly, it still advanced to trap the Tank corps and join with 6th army. Mac's III PzC now with the 502nd Hvy PzB are providing the flank while much needed replacments arrive...Once these pockets are gone it will free up 6th army...Another note, never attack a city head on after 41, surround it first, thus Stailingrad, dumbass move to try...

[Flaviusx]

I see 3 more tank corps near Rostov. It's all starting to show up now. And there were some near the Oka in that latest screenshot.
 
Does he have anything in the kitty left for Moscow?

[kevini1000]

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

(AAR) Rostov, and the Soviets are playing hardball. They really don't want to give up the north-south rail I want. I'm bringing in a Rum division to occupy the island at the mouth of the Don to free up the Jager divison there for other use...I really hate having to use Axis minors at the front, they suck badly. I will add they do a fine job slapping women and children around, I've only had one partisan outbreak in 10 turns...

that's most likely a safe spot for a Rumanian division

[Hard Sarge]

one thing to remember though, SU Tank Corps are not the same as Ge PZ Divs

they are not great assulting Units, they are more for explot/reserve,  then to break holes in the line

(down the Road, the SU will get Mech Corps for that)

if I was seeing stacks of Inf Corps, in the same area, then I would start to worry

[Flaviusx]

It's not so much their breakthrough abilities that's the issue here, as is their ability to contest a German penetration and create meeting engagements in fluid environments where the grunts just get swept aside.  
 
That said, in a pinch, the Sovs did use them for breakthrough ops, although this usually didn't turn out well for them and their own doctrine was to assign afv subunits with armor (brigades/regiments, preferably with KVs and such) to assist infantry to create breakthroughs rather than tank or mech corps.
 
Another thing I'm wondering: where's all the Soviet arty at? They should be getting arty divisions by now (or does the game not allow for those?) Soviet arty losses have been pretty heavy, though.
 

[PyleDriver]

Not sure when Art divisions come in effect, thats a Q&A for Jim or Trey... You guys have mentioned AFV and Inf losses, the Art losses are hitting the Soviets hard. So how do they form these units when they can't keep there front lines units supplied with them?

[ComradeP]

"Artillery" can be any kind of gun in this game, it seems, and if it's mostly the frontline units taking losses, the losses will be predominantly of light to medium artillery. Artillery divisions were primarily equipped with medium and heavy artillery.

[PyleDriver]

Artillery is considered 82mm morters and higher in this game. The effects of an attack is if they retreat (either side) they leave alot of stuff behind...I will give a loss (ss) after this turn...Mothers day today and I'm sneaking to the computer...lol...

[SGHunt]

... plus a good number of AT guns - maybe 30 x 45 mm's per inf division in '42?   So maybe a third of the 'artillery' destroyed will not be artillery at all.