The Fight For Red October Scenario

[Redleg]

Here is my test battle for Red October.

I used some map tricks and anti-tank obstacles to prevent tanks from driving through most important buildings. Some buildings are not protected that way.

There is quite a lot of battle damage but an attempt was made to avoid cluttering up the map too badly.

As usual if you try this, please post your comments, etc.

This is most likely a pretty pbem battle also. I fixed the East part of the map so the Soviet could obtain reinforcements ok. However C/C players will find the Soviets in a defensive stance.

The last time I played this, I was a bit careless and paid dearly for my hurried moves. Result was a draw.

[Orzel Bialy]

can't wait to take if for a spin...thanks again for all your efforts Redleg.

ps....thanks also for the map editing material.

[Redleg]

While experimenting with this scenario, I discovered some things to help deal with buildings and indestructable armor crashing through stone buildings.

As you may have noted, a tank crashing into a stone building will convert that hex from Stone to Rough. So soon, the city is no longer made up of buildings, rather it becomes a cluster of rough hexes.

I discovered that if a stone building is placed on a Trench or Gully hex, that when this building is struck by armor, it will retain its Stone Building characteristic. The only downside is the building will have a height of either 8 or 9 depending upon whether it is sitting on a gully or a trench. So far, this is the only way I have found to have the Stone Building characteristic retained after a collision with a tank.... or major explosion.

Wooden buildings do not react the same way. They will convert to Rough and lose their Wooden Building characteristic no matter what I try (so far).

Placing a tank obstacle in a building hex will prohibit vehicular traffic through the dining room and kitchens (LOL) but the tank obstacle is visible. However, if the tank obstacle is used and then either minor or major battle damage applied to the building, the tank obstacle becomes invisible on the screen but prevent driving through the building. This is the best "fix" I can find so far.

So it appears to me that when one is preparing to create a scenaro featuring city battles, that the problem of armor crashing through the buildings is critical to deal with. First in the map itself to provide the basis for stopping tanks from crashing through buildings (the gully or trench) tile should be beneath the building.

Then the addition of tank obstacles can be used to keep vehicles out of wooden and multi-hex buildings when needed. Of course, some buildings would be easier for tanks to destroy/enter than others.

Multi-hex stone buildings react the same way to tank collisions as the single hex stone buildings. I may have found a way to help that situation by changing the outer ring of 6 hexes around the "core" of the muli-hex building with Boulders. The stone building characteristic is lost but "boulders" seem to be at least as satisfactory as "rough". So far, I cannot find a way to retain the the stone building characteristic after the large building is crashed by armor.

A final thing I noticed is that when a building is placed on a hex and the altitude or building icon is altered, the height of the building decreases in steps of 2 each time until a height of 5 is reached. So if when map-making in a city, you notice stone buildings with a height of 5, this is the likely cause.

Fortunately, the height can be "repaired" by beginning anew in the hex involved by rebuilding the hex and replacing the building. It is also possible to alter the height in Fred's Map editor.

I think that all of this experimentation will permit a city to remain so during the course of a battle rather than being gradually converted to a grid of rough hexes separated by roads/streets.

[Orzel Bialy]

I'll have to try and incorporate some of your insights into the Berlin map...so certain structures like the Brandenburg Gate aren't pounded to dust.

Keep on posting your editing notes...always something new to learn.

[Bing]

OK, Redleg - we'll take the Red October sub(way) downtown and see how it goes. I am presently running a test with BGR's "Road to Kharkov .." from the Soviet side - haven't met Bob Hope and Bing Crosby yet, maybe they will show up soon, if so I hope they bring Dorothy Lamour with them (Hubba Hubba ...).

I am (again) seeing if it is possible to take out an emplaced German 88 with HE - last time it was 200 main armament rounds and several thousand MG rounds - the piece was never scratched, eventually when I ran the T-34's up point blank, the crew ran away.This time we've had about 100 HE, hundreds of MG and several 120mm mortar rounds impact the hex (yes, I changed the mortars) - the piece is intact, capable of fire, about half the crew are casualties, the other half hiding under the table. I figure maybe a couple hundred more HE rounds, I might drive the crw entirely away.

I think it's funny but have been accused of possessing a strange sense of humor.

Bing

[Redleg]

Further experimentation shows that if I use a gully or trench as an underlayment for a stone house, that the elevation changes. Changing the elevation in Fred's Map Editor seems to work.... that is, until later when the height of the buildings undergoes spontaneous changes.

So to sum up, using gullies and trenches to force the retention of the "Stone Building" hex characteristic has a fatal flaw - the loss of elevation - at least in some cases.

Watch out for the sewer lines in Stalingrad. LOL

[Bing]

I thunk it was gonna be for the Ruskies. Can you do a version for Soviet side versus German against the AI?

Bing

[Grenadier]

I have been redoing the battles in the factories for Marauder's Stalingrad campaign and have found the same about the buildings, but when the AI crashes a T-34 into a building to get to a VO, it normally gets immobilized. There are many anecdotes of both sides putting tanks inside the buildings, driving over smashed lathes and other machinery and becoming victims of molotovs and satchel charges. Also the buildings are so large that they can never have a path blown through them w/o getting all of the available armor stuck. Watching one get unimmobilized is unique, It reminds me of the scene in Cross of Iron where the T-34 crashes through and stops, stalled out, then restarts and drives up to the tunnel entrance and fires.

[Grenadier]

That 88 is all that keeps the Ai in the battle ffor much of it until the mobile 88's arrive;)

[Redleg]

I have been thinking very hard about a Red October version played from the Soviet side.

So if I can get one working properly, it will be done. Most of the details are worked out. What I envision is a Soviet counter-attack against the AI's advancing German troops.

URRRRAAAAAH!

[Bing]

Good news, Redleg - if you need a tester let me know. I've done quite a bit of it for the scenario designers. Happy to be of service.

(Ahhhh ... I love the smell of bortsch in the morning!)

BTW I received my Darlington Pub's "Russian Armored Cars 1930-2000" via UPS this morning. Superb essay on the subject - 560+ photos, numerous line drawings, everything you wanted to know about Soviet/Russian armored cars but were afraid to ask.

Well worth the price, I spoke to Jeff at Darlington a few days ago, believe he is keeping the sale price in effect for this book, there are not many copies left. Will be a collector's item, though this is not to say Jeff wouldn't make a reprint run some time in the future, a la the Soviet Armor/Artillery Design book, however rerun was 500 copies and they are also nearly gone. Get'em while they last.

Bing

[Redleg]

Bing,
The Red Army counter-attack is working - it needs another run-through to confirm that it performs as it should. I had to make a couple of changes that need testing.

"The Battle of Attrition"! A mixed battalion of Conscripts, Guards, and Shock SMG Troops assault German infantry and Sturmtruppen as they attempt to tighten the noose around Red October.

I hope it will prove to be winnable.

It should be ready to go by tomorrow.

In the future, if all goes as expected, there will be fights at the Lasur Chemical Plant, Tractor Factory, Red Barricades, Grain elevator, Hospital, Airdrome, Gumrak, the Mameov hill, Gumrak and who knows what else. But it is going to take a few months to put it all together.

[Grenadier]

It looks like the battle of the Stalingrad battles is about to begin, Redleg vs Marauder, the former Raider vs the head of the Raiders SP Arsenal. Who will be the winner?

The players and fans, of course.
Redleg-(voiced by James Earl Jones)So Marauder, we meet once again
Marauder-(sounding a lot like Sir Alec Guiness)You would look much better without that black helmet and face mask. And what is with the heavy breathing?
Redleg-Once I was the apprentice, Now I am the Master-
Marauder-You may strike me down in the streets of Stalingrad, but I will come back stronger than ever
Redleg-Your powers are weak, old man. MY Dirty Dozen will show you the power of the darkside
Marauder-Do not underestimate the power of the Arsenal

To be continued

[Redleg]

The first battle that inspired to me to try a scenario was Stalingrad. I didn't care much for the outcome of those efforts.

So it has been in my mind for a long while to give it another try now that I have a bit more experience and information to use.

I do not view this as some sort of competition. Merely an effort to produce some interesting S'grad scenarios.

If Marauder or anyone else wants to create S'grad scenarios, that will be great! More to choose from and more ideas about how to approach it.