OKH Plan 1942 - Alpha AAR

[PyleDriver]

Ron your correct. I just transfered all my heavy artillery to 4th army from 11th army... Heres one last (ss) before I sweat this (AI) turn. 2nd PzA pressed further east, the threat has to concern STAVKA...

[Flaviusx]

He's going to try to surround Moscow. This is subtly different than actually attacking it head on. So it's not a mere question of marching 60 miles and waving to Stalin at the Kremlin.
 
I very much doubt Pyledriver relishes the idea of doing Moscow the way the Germans tried to do Stalingrad.
 
 

[SGHunt]

Sure he won't want to use his armour to frontally assault, but once Moscow is cut off I'm sure he'll want to take the city as soon as possible.   I think that is clear from his movement of his heavy guns from the 11th Army to the 4th.  

Encircle, starve, pulverise, assault....
 
    

And of course, with infantry.    

[Zorch]

Stuart,

I just don't think enough 5 weeks is enough...timely Russian counter attacks can delay the Germans until mud comes.
Although the Russians may be too weak to launch a major winter offensive, they should be able to pinch off the panzer salients during mud turns.

A human playing the Russians would move every available unit to Moscow's flanks...will the AI be that smart?

How many more turns are in this scenario? Does it go all the way to February '43?

[Flaviusx]

Like Zorch I'm curious to see how the AI will react to this. It'll be a good test of it, which after all is the point of this exercise.
 
I'd love to see what's going on behind Soviet lines, too. This fog of war is driving me crazy. Am convinced that it's holding back very substantial reserves.

[SGHunt]

Il nous faut de l'audace, encore de l'audace, toujours de l'audace!
Danton

What else would you do....?

[PyleDriver]

(DAR) I new I had 17th army spread thin south of the Don. I was moving a fresh division (3rd MnD) from Germany to bolster it. Guess I was late. The Soviets hit Angelis's XLIV corp hard and forced me to transfer 14th PzD from Kleist to counter the threat. I can't allow that railline to fall...Also further south they hit Mansteins 11th hard also...

[PyleDriver]

(AAR) Voronezh fell, and Kleist is on the move agian. He transfered a XVII corps to 6th army and 6th army transfered XXIX corps to 2nd army...C&C guys it makes things happen...Anyway he is going to roll the line, plus the threat to Tambov is great and reserves need to be pulled there...

[SGHunt]

Was it a costly to assault Voronezh?  

I'm impressed you took it this turn.   He had an armour corps there with some infantry and a defence factor of 70 (at least it was 70 last turn) and you only had the city invested for two weeks.     This is in contrast to the group you destroyed last turn (90 miles due west of Tula) that took many weeks and a lot of men and equipment to wear down.   I'm very interested to know how these came to be such different battles?   Poor morale?   Poor (or excellent) leadership?   Have 6th Army got some serious hardware?

Does it show what could happen in the final assault on Moscow?

As you can see I am waiting on each new ss and not working hard enough!
Stuart

[PyleDriver]

Well Stuat the Voronezh attack wasn't that bad (even), I did net alot of armor. I had 6 divisions attack and alot of artillery in support...It does open a can of worms for the Soviets now...Not really sure why the AI pulled form Tula. I send Joel and Gary saves after every turn, and stuff is being updated all the time. God help you guys when you play the AI when this is released...lol...Gary still has a ton of work to do on the Axis AI...

[jaw]

Based on your game he still has a ton of work to do on the Russian AI.

[PyleDriver]

One the other note Voronezh was sacked once before (less fort levels). So will Moscow fall the same? Nope. If I get lucky to surround it, it will be cold bitter winter fighting into the city...But the city should be out of supply for over a month when I attack...Lets see what happens...Great game huh...

[PyleDriver]

Jim (Jaw) lets see you play the AI and post it...lol...Im just a bad ass player, at least in my own mind...lol...I've been testing the AI for almost 2 years now, your great at your job, so am I...

[SGHunt]

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver
It does open a can of worms for the Soviets now...

You aren't joking either - Kleist knocked over another tank corps as well as the one that 6th Army destryed at Voronezh, and he has isolated another. That strong Russian front, the one that lauched the alarming counter-attack, looks very shaky all of a sudden. And this is with Kleist having lost an infantry corps to 6th Army and a Pz Division further South.

Can't wait to see what Hoth, 2nd Pz Army and 4th Army get up to between them...

[jaw]

Jon,

There's a reason I'm not a "formal" tester. I tend to be an history buff first and a gamer second which makes my play average at best. I would have never tried your strategy simply because I would not have considered it fair to the computer (i.e. not programmed to respond properly) and because I would have been more interested in seeing if I could make Blau work the way it was intended (no Stalingrad). I would have probably gotten beaten by the computer and felt good about it because it vindicated history (the Germans were likely to lose no matter what they tried) to me.

[ComradeP]

I would never try PyleDriver's strategy in PBEM, because the Soviet player could cripple it through concentrating on one of the breakthrough points and hitting it with more or less everything, whilst fighting a holding action against the others, essentially defeating the breakthrough attempts in detail, which the Axis can't really do much about as they are either forced to continue with everything or pull everything back.

[SGHunt]

Comrade,

Isn't that precisely what having Kleist running around as a loose canon away from the main axis of attack is designed to avoid?   If you throw all your reserves at Hoth, then Kleist runs amok, forcing you to move South to counter.   Then Model kicks off and you need reserves there.   Rinse and repeat... 

I shall be interested to see what the AI has done North of Moscow this turn.   If and when Kalinin falls then the envelopment looks more likely, but if there are the heavy duty reserves that some of us suspect are still knocking about, and if these are deployed up there, then Model will be hard put to it to achieve the necessary Northern pincer.   

I suspect however, that Hoth's panzers will be attracting Stavka's attention right now...  
And those three Heavy Howitzer Battalions are on the move!   Time to move in to the deep bunker with Lazov, Comrade [;)]

[Flaviusx]

In Pyledriver's defense, pushing the AI to the limit is a good thing and will lead to improvements. I have to agree that it needs some help, however. It's been a bit too passive for my taste. (We should be seeing a lot more of what it did in Voronezh a turn or two ago.) And it's questionable whether or not it's smart enough to realize and act against the threat to Moscow's flanks. It is indeed highly questionable, in fact quite unlikely, that this sort of thing would work against a human opponent in PBEM. We can read a map. Such a simple thing, yet very hard to program.
 
 
 
 
 

[PyleDriver]

Really guys the Soviets arn't organized or experenced enough in 42 to pull off a major offensive. Just by sheer stupidity the Axis left Stalingrad a sitting duck. I'm taking some population and industral centers now which should help my cause...Now when 43 rolls around, I'll move to a flex defence...I will say Moscow is looking tougher evey turn, but I will press on...Don't you guys love what if's...Btw, I tested the Case Blue a couple of times also, boring. I ended up short of Baku, but took Stalingrad early. You just spread out the front way to wide, and the Germans don't have enough units to cover it all. Just asking to get slapped...

[Flaviusx]

PD, a major offensive isn't what we're looking for here. Rather, an ability to smother German penetrations with their own reserves. Which the Sovs were perfectly able to do in real life. (At enormous cost to themselves, to be sure.)