Ship types and how to use them

[Skyfire7631]

Hi,

I think I could use some help about how using some ship types. Some are obvious, like subs, but I'll list them all anyway, with what I know/think, and hope you can give me good advices Could be useful for newbies too.

Here we go :

AG - Collier (barge ?)
Supply transport.
BTW : I'm playing scenario 17, I'm mid october and still have no barges available (but 32 PT boats possible). Is it normal ?

AK - Cargo ship
Supply transport.

AO - Oiler
Fuel transport or replenishment TF.

AP - Troop transport
Troop or supply transport

APD - High speed transport
Fast transport, but AFAIK very limited capacity, so useless ?

AV - Seaplane tender
Adds some aviation support to any base. But frankly, I don't really see the use : if you can park it at an existing base, you can also transfer some Base Force troop there, and what can be the utility to park an AV on a beach (you still need supplies to operate planes, don't you ?) ????

BB - Battleship
Bombardment, surface combat

BC - Battle cruiser
Never seen one. Same as BB, I suppose.

CA - Cruiser
Bombardment, surface combat, escorts

CL - Light cruiser
Bombardment, surface combat, escorts

CLAA - Ligh cruiser anti-aircraft
Bombardment, surface combat, escorts

CS - Scout cruiser
Never seen one, same as CL, I suppose

CV - Carrier
Air combat.

CVE - Escort carrier
Transport of planes from one base to another.
Other ?

CVL - Light carrier
Same as CV.

DD - Destroyer
Bombardment, surface combat, all types of escorts

DE - Destroyer escort
Hmm, same as DD I suppose

DM - Destroyer mine layer
Mine laying, anti-subs operations.

DMS - Destroyer mine sweeping
Well ... mine sweeping.
Other ?

LCI, LCM and LCVP - Landing craft (infantry, mechanized, vehicle personel)
Never seen them yet : troop transport I suppose.

LSD and LST - Landind ship (dock and tank)
Same as above.

ML - Mine layer
Errhhh ... mine laying ...
Other ?

MSW - Mine sweeper
Mine swepping. What's the difference with DMS ?

PC - Patrol coastal
Anti-subs ops. Surface combat ? How exactly ?

PG - Patrol gunboat
Same as PC ?

PT - Patrol torpedo
Surface combat ? How exactly ?

SC - Sub chaser
Anti-subs ops.

SS - Submarine
All subs missions.

TK - Tanker
Fuel transport. Replenishment ?


Ok, I think I listed them all. Many things have already been answered I guess, but I never saw a thread with all of them listed, so I think it can be useful (will be for me at least ).

Waiting for your ideas/input and so on

Regards.

[BPRE]

Skyfire76,

I'll try to give you some feedback.

AG only exist for the Japanese player. The equivalent for the US are LCVPs and LCMs (in Ship availability they are called barges) but they arrive later.

APDs are very useful for Tokyo Express type operations due to their speed. Fast Transport TFs
operate like Bombardment TFs so they are never stuck on a beach/in a port while unloading or evacuating.

AVs, you are correct in that you need supply but just dump some on the beach from an APD or similar. They are also useful for off-loading normal base forces from the work of taking care of the seaplanes.

CVEs, some of them enter the game with aircraft groups attached and can be used like normal carriers. The others can operate Marine and Navy but beware of Long Island. Apparently it makes Navy/Marine groups disappear.

LCIs and LSTs are very good for assault landings. Load them with troops and cargo.

LCMs and LCVPs are the US barges. You can transfer troops and cargo. Useful in the frontline but not much else IMO.

LSD There is only one in the game and it's not as useful as an LST because it doesn't load and offload in one turn.

DMS and MSW Check the speed. DMS can travel with other surface combattants.

Regards
BPRE

[Skyfire7631]

Thanks BPRE, this answers a lot of questions, especially for barges

Do you know when they're supposed to arrive for the US player ?

BTW : I wanted to put this thread in the War Room sub forum, so if an admin/moderator wants to move it there, that's OK with me ...

Regards.

[BPRE]

I'm afraid that I don't know the answer to that for sure. I think it's early in 1943 but I suspect it can vary a bit like other reinforcements.

Regards
BPRE

[Admiral DadMan]

Originally posted by Skyfire76
Thanks BPRE, this answers a lot of questions, especially for barges

Do you know when they're supposed to arrive for the US player ?

BTW

Near March '43 if memory serves

[Admiral DadMan]

AK's and AP's can also deliver fuel, but suffer load penalties to do so.

AV's only service seaplanes (Catalina's for the Allies, Rufe and Mavis, etc., for IJN.). Don't anchor them thinking that they can service land based or carrier based aircraft.

CS are IJN scout cruisers carrying seaplane airgroups that can be launched while underway.

CVE's without air groups are good for transporting short range air groups. Load them up in port, move within range of the target base, and launch 'em.

With air groups, use them for close air support of invasion forces. I wouldn't go head to head with CV's with them though, they just weren't built for that.

DE's are Destroyer Escorts, much smaller, much slower, but quite usefull escorting slower ships.

DMS, Destroyer Minesweeper. High speed, short endurance, as they were converted from old WWI DD's. MSW's are slower, but just as effective.

CVL, near fleet carrier (CV) speed, 1/3 the number of planes.

[madflava13]

I believe the Long Island "disappearing flight groups" bug has been fixed... I used to have the problem, but since the latest patches, I haven't. Can't say for sure, but I've successfully transferred several air groups since and haven't lost a single one...

[Skyfire7631]

Thanks everybody, I think we covered almost anything now

I just re-read the manual for the 4th time, at least, and in fact some (not all) of my questions were answered there.

This makes me think that, as good as the manual can be, it could have been better. One obvious example is the altitude setting for planes, which is not really completly explained. I'd have liked to see a complete explanation of ship types, too.

Maybe an addendum to the manual, with the next patch, would be a great idea ?

Anyway, thanks for your input.

Regards.

[panda124c]

APDs good for landing raiders on unoccupied beach hexes. Use two one carrying supplies and on carrying raiders. Transport and unload on beach hex. Attack with raiders, then Fast Transport the raiders off. Use Fast Transport because you can tell the TF to go pick up a unit. Use two APDs because you will leave troops behind if you only use one during Fast Transport missions.

Have fun.

[Q-Ball]

To take this discussion to the next level, it might be useful to outline primary missions for specific classes of ships.

For example, the Japanese CS's. They are unique in that they have way more capacity and speed than all the other AV's on both sides. To me, the best use of those ships is CV escort, because they can contribute their planes to NAV SEARCH missions, freeing up Val's and Kate's for 100% attacks, and they also have a decent AA value, as much as a CA. That allows the CA's to be used less for escort and more for Bombardment. The CS units are the only seaplane units with enought speed for a CV group.

Another area is the JAP DD's. I have seen some comments about the Minekaze's being completely useless, which they are not, because they do make great FAST TRANSPORTS; the Kamikaze's should only be used as AA Escorts (usually in CV groups), etc.

CVE's are great at escorting invasion fleets, in that they can provide fighter cover to a transport group, and you probably don't want to send fleet CV's right up to the beach. As Allies, I have used a TF of a couple CVE's with only fighters, plus a couple CLAA's, as a TF to protect invasion transports, with CV TF's standing off nearby to provide some CAP, and counterstrike an enemy response. I have used Unyo-class and the US CVE's in this role. In most cases, you don't really need aircraft transports; other than some early allied aircraft like the P-40, most planes can transfer to a base on their own without a CVE.

Some other classes that are hard to figure out how to use: Jap PG's and PC's; SC's; PT Boats.

[Q-Ball]

Here is another one, but some more comments would be great; someone mentioned the APD's. IJN APD's are technically FAST TRANSPORTS, but they actually are not best used in this role, because they are too slow (18 knots). They do carry ASW weapons, however, so I have used them as Transport TF Escorts, freeing up DD's for other duties, like FAST TRANSPORT. The IJN DD's can all make 33 knots or more, so those are your best bet for FAST TRANSPORT. The Allied APD's can make 23 knots, which is OK, but even there they could use some improvement. APD's do work well in invasion fleets, though.

Also, the TATSUTA/TENRYU are best used as FAST TRANSPORT, because they are very weak as surface combatants, and useless in an AA role.

[XPav]

Originally posted by Q-Ball
CVE's are great at escorting invasion fleets, in that they can provide fighter cover to a transport group, and you probably don't want to send fleet CV's right up to the beach. As Allies, I have used a TF of a couple CVE's with only fighters, plus a couple CLAA's, as a TF to protect invasion transports, with CV TF's standing off nearby to provide some CAP, and counterstrike an enemy response. I have used Unyo-class and the US CVE's in this role. In most cases, you don't really need aircraft transports; other than some early allied aircraft like the P-40, most planes can transfer to a base on their own without a CVE.

Load Marine F4U squadrons onto CVEs. Ouch.

[Q-Ball]

You're right X-Pav, Corsairs are death to the IJN, the Japs will take severe losses attacking anything protected by Corsairs. I've had 10 to 1 kill ratios as pretty routine. A couple CVE's with F4U's on them, you can consider that TF well protected.

[Jo van der Pluym]

About ship types have I the following question.

Why have the:
BB Battleship
DD Destroyer
FF Frigate
SS Submarine

2 times the same characters.

[madflava13]

I don't know the reason for that, other than those have been the designations used by the US Navy forever.

[madflava13]

And SS is just the base designator for subs... SSG is a non-nuke guided missle sub, SSN a nuke powered sub, SSBN nuke ballistic missile sub, etc...

[Highlander]

You can use the Japanese Rufe fighter on CS´s, as an additional CAP for the CV´s. If you have 2 or 3 CS in your Fleet, use some of the other float planes to attack with the Val's and Kate's.