The Shipwreck of Their Hopes: Good'Guyz (aka "The Allies")

[Fishbed]

@Terje439

ORIGINAL: terje439

As Nemo said, more than one person following [;)]

And I must also agree with Nemo on that in AE you will get burned if you try to fight alot of minor battles trying to wage a war of attrition this early. You need to defend your main bases imho, and allow the Japanese to spend time and effort on taking out more or less empty areas. The ONE thing the Japanese does not have, is time.
If you try to hold too much, you will not manage to hold anything in AE (I know from experience [:D]).

Thanks for posting Terje!
They're gonna have a surprise soon. I intend to make those "more or less empty areas" not that "empty" so they can have a couple bad surprises on their way to victory... Time, yes, is my friend. And the deeper they'll go, the happier I'll be to corner them.

[Fishbed]

@JuanG

ORIGINAL: JuanG

The IJN begins with a variant of the Bofors in production as the Type 99 40mm, along with a slightly (compared to OTL) superior 25mm weapon in the Type 99 25mm. Most of the 40mms are on the CV/BBs initially, but theyll start showing up more often as the war goes on.

In short, IJN AA is much more dangerous than in stock, but still not as good as the late war allied one.


Also, as Nemo said, I'm sure there are people reading, there just may not be much to comment on at the moment - regardless, good to hear that you've gotten a few blows in!

Thanks Juan
About the blows: yes, but no thanks to the generous OOB you provided us with, and that I blew up so carelessly [:(] Hard lesson learned, thought!
About the bofors: another reason not to engage the enemy CVs too early. We'll come to them and fither them when we'll have a chance to put a bomb where it belongs - this means no strike under a hundred DBs or we're screwed...

[JuanG]

I think considering the scenario and how aggressive theyve been in using all the extra goodies they get to the fullest, you guys have done rather well. While loosing those key bases a few months earlier than normal hurts, the fact you've managed to bleed them in other places is promising.

42 will be painful whatever they do, but assuming things dont go totally wrong you should be in a favourable position by mid '43 at the latest. It will be interesting to see how things go.

I think its a little unsporting of them to keep prodding you in their emails, a little joke here or there when things go well (or really wrong) is great, but can get dull quickly if consistent...

[Fishbed]

Nah, well it's ok now I guess, I think Michael realized it (John I don't know ^^) but it's way better than what it used to be. Actually, I was on the verge of quitting two weeks ago, but well, I guess it's part of the deal. But I won't be that bad when I'll be on the good side of the fence later on, and so won't my very calm teammate [8D]

Just received the new turn, we'll see what happened tonight. Hope our CVs didn't stumble upon one of your other secret new toys Juan! [;)]

[Fishbed]

Let's have a little update: long time no see!

January 4th, 1942

Some heavy but unavoidable (considering my early choices, or lack of to be exact) blows and some small victories today, as Australia and India a gearing up for war.

Malaya

Singapore fell today with heavy losses. It is by far the worst defeat of British forces in modern history. London mourns the dead and the missing and plaids to punish the bloodthirsty aggressor.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Singapore (50,84)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 52064 troops, 651 guns, 321 vehicles, Assault Value = 1739

Defending force 23897 troops, 325 guns, 204 vehicles, Assault Value = 465

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 2174

Allied adjusted defense: 375

Japanese assault odds: 5 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Singapore !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
     1621 casualties reported
        Squads: 4 destroyed, 89 disabled
        Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 95 disabled
        Engineers: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled
     Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)
     Vehicles lost 5 (0 destroyed, 5 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
     46003 casualties reported
        Squads: 1106 destroyed, 123 disabled
        Non Combat: 3164 destroyed, 809 disabled
        Engineers: 91 destroyed, 1 disabled
     Guns lost 585 (585 destroyed, 0 disabled)
     Vehicles lost 149 (131 destroyed, 18 disabled)
     Units destroyed 23


Assaulting units:
   16th Infantry Regiment
   2nd Engineer Regiment
   38th Division
   33rd Division
   5th Division
   2nd Recon Regiment
   24th Infantry Regiment
   5th Mortar Battalion
   1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
   2nd Mortar Battalion
   3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
   3rd Mortar Battalion
   18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
   25th Army
   2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
   1st RF Gun Battalion
   3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
   14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion

Defending units:
   2nd Gordons Battalion
   2nd Malay Battalion
   1st Malay Battalion
   3/16th Punjab Battalion
   3rd Cavalry Regiment
   Singapore Fortress
   22nd Australian Brigade
   2/17 Dogra Battalion
   1st Manchester Battalion
   2nd Loyal Battalion
   27th Australian Brigade
   SSVF Brigade
   5/2nd Punjab Battalion
   29 Battery/3 HAA
   22nd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
   III Indian Corps
   Singapore Base Force
   224 Group RAF
   2nd HK&S Heavy AA Regiment
   Malayan Air Wing
   AHQ Far East
   1st Indian Heavy AA Regiment
   Malaya Army
   1st HK&S Heavy AA Regiment

Most interesting units which were worth their weight in PP had cadres transfered for days already. There was nothing else we could do (apart from playing better from the start of course ^^)

The Philippines

Fortunately for the morale, Bataan while coming under attack on the very same day resisted way better. One of such blows is enough for a day. But it's only a matter of days: the enemy can only get stronger, and we can only get weaker. 803rd EAB had cadres evacuated by sub, they're gonna build some nice airstrip elsewhere.

Ground combat at Bataan (78,77)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 27068 troops, 269 guns, 262 vehicles, Assault Value = 958

Defending force 31695 troops, 587 guns, 554 vehicles, Assault Value = 986

Japanese adjusted assault: 579

Allied adjusted defense: 1197

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
     2071 casualties reported
        Squads: 4 destroyed, 135 disabled
        Non Combat: 8 destroyed, 152 disabled
        Engineers: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
     Vehicles lost 63 (3 destroyed, 60 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
     570 casualties reported
        Squads: 1 destroyed, 38 disabled
        Non Combat: 17 destroyed, 112 disabled
        Engineers: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
     Vehicles lost 90 (9 destroyed, 81 disabled)


Assaulting units:
   65th Brigade
   48th Division
   20th Infantry Regiment
   4th Tank Regiment
   16th Engineer Regiment
   7th Tank Regiment
   9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
   14th Army
   8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
   15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
   2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion

Defending units:
   192nd Tank Battalion
   194th Tank Battalion
   1st/45th PS Inf Battalion
   21st PA Infantry Division
   Manila Bay Defenses
   4th Marine Regiment
   11th PA Infantry Division
   2nd/45th PS Inf Battalion
   31st Infantry Regiment
   14th PS Engineer Regiment
   3rd/45th PS Inf Battalion
   57th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team
   31st PA Infantry Division
   26th PS Cavalry Regiment
   1st PA Constabulary Regiment
   200th & 515th Coast AA Regiment
   202nd PA Construction Battalion
   Provisional GMC Grp
   Asiatic Fleet
   Bataan USN Base Force
   803rd Engineer Aviation Battalion
   Clark Field USAAF Base Force
   I Philippine Corps
   Far East USAAF
   201st PA Construction Battalion
   USAFFE
   88th PS Field Artillery Regiment
   1st USMC AA Battalion
   301st PA Field Artillery Regiment

The Dutch East Indies

The enemy landed on Lautem, Eastern Timor. Well, had to happen. Nothing much I can do there, especially with 3 heavy and 3 light Japanese CVs in the area of interest. Anyway, I thought this was already the invasion force for Darwin, but it seems it is just the vanguard. Intel tells us the enemy force is gathering in Ambon before striking Darwin probably in less than a week. Our forces are already evacuating to the south. I don't intend on sacrificing those forces for nothing.

Australia

The KB is cruising southwards now, after its attack on Sydney. Our opponents' strategy is rather strange - neither yesterday nor today did our opponents put substantiate assets on naval search - and they decided to strike Melbourne anyway, although we're aware of their presence for a certain time now. Technically, they're hitting empty ports (all important ports were emptied two days ago already when we saw him approaching) while floating in the middle of a cloud of fleeing merchants which didn't even get noticed - even our several decoy TFs made of AKLs didn't get spotted! Well, they are all safely home in other harbors now, but well, so far the KB cruise is a waste of good oil, with a couple minesweepers and AKL sunk. It is most probably not even worth the low price paid by the planes, and I wish I knew where he'd put his oilers so we can have a little fun...

Afternoon Air attack on Melbourne , at 82,170

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes

Japanese aircraft
     A6M2 Zero x 18
     B5N2 Kate x 145



Japanese aircraft losses
     B5N2 Kate: 14 damaged

Allied Ships
     AMc Korowa, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
     AMc Durraween, Bomb hits 1,  heavy fires,  heavy damage

Port hits 12
Port supply hits 2

South Pacific

During the day, the enemy tried something new. They put Mavis on naval attack and it worked pretty well. Well, maybe next time, if they happen to encounter fighters, they won't be that cool about that, bloody fatties!

Morning Air attack on TF, near Pago Pago at 148,161

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 20 minutes

Japanese aircraft
     H6K4 Mavis x 10



No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
     AM Muritai, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
     xAK Aspasia Nomikos, Bomb hits 1



Aircraft Attacking:
     10 x H6K4 Mavis bombing from 11000 feet
              Naval Attack:  2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

Aspasia Nomikos caught transferring cargo ...
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring AM Muritai

But the real action started earlier that day, when one of our CV TF - as thought - stumbled upon one of Juan's new toys. Well, for a change, we were not on the receiving end, and our toys were bigger than theirs, so we had great fun.
It all started with this kind of random encounters that can really ruin your day:



Fortunately only a couple 8" shells were sent in the direction of the enemy (strange thought to read that in the CR he's the one who engaged the American CA) so revenge could come later that day, as sweet as it could get. Unfortunately, no sinking report, but I think that the Japanese CL is as good as dead, that far away from everything. One less modern CL to worry about, a good start for the Enterprise CAG!

Morning Air attack on TF, near Niuafo'ou at 139,161

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 37 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Allied aircraft
     F4F-3A Wildcat x 7
     SBD-3 Dauntless x 15
     TBD-1 Devastator x 11


Allied aircraft losses
     SBD-3 Dauntless: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
     CL Sorachi, Bomb hits 2,  heavy fires
     DD Asanagi, Bomb hits 2,  heavy fires,  heavy damage
     DD Yunagi

Aircraft Attacking:
      3 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
              Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
     11 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 1000 feet
              Naval Attack:  2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
      4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
              Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
      8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
              Naval Attack:  1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CL Sorachi
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Asanagi

Later that day SBDs managed to miss DD Yunagi, while the TBDs had great fun target exercising on a lone PB that really ate a lot of candies (15 bomb hits, that on average more than one bomb by plane hitting the mark! For a change, Devastators are worthy of their nickname.

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Kabara at 137,164

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 4,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes


Allied aircraft
     TBD-1 Devastator x 11


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
     PB Nagata Maru, Bomb hits 15, and is sunk



Aircraft Attacking:
     11 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 1000 feet
              Naval Attack:  2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb

China
Finally, as every small victory deserves a word in such dire times, here's the latest one: after 10 turns, KMT bombers actually FLY, and HIT a target! Gosh that was amazing!

Morning Air attack on Shanghai , at 92,55

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Allied aircraft
     A-29A Hudson x 4
     DB-3M x 5
     SB-III x 10

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
     ACM Shinko Maru #1, Bomb hits 1,  heavy fires,  heavy damage

Port hits 2

Ok the harbor was a little empty, but, hey, at least he may start to put up some CAP.



A little remedy for the pain

As a closing statement, I will just show some photos of the (hopefully) last moments of the Hyuga. It is showing as Ise on the intel screen but, well, I think my captain put enough torpedoes in her bowels to identify her correctly. Two thumbs up KX!

[Galahad78]

Yes!!! That's a very nice BB to see sinking [:D]

Will you then "concede" Darwin?

[Nemo121]

That's also why I do find a little strange the two guys feel the need to tell us in nearly every mail that they totally rock. No offense, but "A vaincre sans péril, on triomphe sans gloire".

I refer you, again, to my initial postings about your opponents. There's no sociopathy there but there is significant narcissism and you'd be fools not to take that into account.

As to your fingers not fist approach... When playing a narcissist a small drip, drip of loss isn't going to shake them. Inflicting significant loss in a single turn will --- and no, a single BB doesn't come close to being a significant loss, that will just be brushed off as "luck" because the wherewithall to recognise good play hasn't, yet, been established.

As to his foray around Oz.... Again, I suggest you read the initial assessment. There can be no doubt now that this is a strategic indicator of John 3rd's control of the fleet as there is no way Michael would be running such a wasteful operation which has far more show than substance to it.

I don't think you are making the most of the advice given here to be honest. Some of the advice given in this thread has been pretty spot on ( and I'm not talking about my advice... although I think my assessment still stands up pretty well ).

[Canoerebel]

I've played John III in UV and WitP, so I know - oh, I KNOW - the irritation that his emails cause.  I've also seen a another of his WitP opponents mention this in an AAR.   I'm sure everybody knows this, but permit me to say that John is a good guy who simply gets so excited that he has no CLUE how irritating that "Banzaii!" and "Wow!  Look what I/We did!" crud can get.  There's one way to put a stop to that stuff...just quietly bide your time until you can throttle him!  "Revenge is mine..." and "heap fire of coals upon his head" come to mind.
 
As a fellow Allied player who loves John despite the massive levels of irritation I've felt at times, I wish you guys the best in bringing justice to the enemy!

[Nemo121]

Interestingly enough any hubris never bothered me when I played him because:

a) anything which allows me to figure out an opponent's personality type is precious intelligence
b) it merely confirmed he was walking into my ambush fat, dumb and happy - and when I sprang the ambush his entire position was destroyed within 2 days


Again I think it is important to point out that narcissism is a normal human personality trait. That John has it in spades doesn't make him a bad person, it just gives you the key to understanding his behaviour and thinking and the tools to dislocate his mental equilibrium. Picking away with guerilla war won't do that, it won't do it at all but each to their own...

[Canoerebel]

With John and Michael being so aggressive overall in the game, one of the worst things the Allies can do is to push their luck too hard trying to score hits.  IE, feeding good troops and ships to the advancing enemy will only embolden them and give them victories.
 
In this instance, given the early date and the LONG haul ahead, the Allies are probably best off doing a Sir Robin with the occasional safe - or very well calculated - strike and sting.  Like the current carrier operation around the Tongas.
 
I'm not very familiar with Juan's Mod, but if the balance of forces and the competitive interplay is similar to vanilla AE, the Allies do not really have the means for any bold and chancy operations for a long, long time.  Patience will be their most important attribute.

[Nemo121]

Canoerebel,

I'm not talking about feeding troops and ships to the enemy. I'm talking about precisely the opposite.... Husbanding troops and ships and planes and then hitting hard with them at a point and time of the Allies choosing.


As to Juan's mod and the correlation of forces. I doubt it could be any worse than the correlation of forces in my Empires Ablaze mod yet when I took over a game there as Allies where the Allies had been pushed back and back for the first 6 months I turned it around within a month and have advanced continuously since. I'm sure there are opportunities to seize the initiative even in this mod but I'm not advocating that as that might be too difficult. I'm just advocating gathering Allied forces and hitting hard once instead of frittering away forces as they currently are doing.

TO people who question whether or not this would be successful I'd point out that simultaneity and concentration of force are massive force multipliers. John3rd is also very likely to commit forces too far forward in too little strength if you leave him an opening. That man hasn't seen an opening he doesn't feel compelled to plunge his hand into. Right now the "guerilla war" is showing teeth around most openingsand so he is cautious. Remove the small teeth and combine them to make a sword, then when he gets overconfident and sticks his hand in the "wrong" opening just chop his hand off cleanly and immediately. That'll rock him.

[kfmiller41]

Well guys, having played against John before I can tell you his attitude doesn't bother me in the least. It is just the way he is and I can live with that. The biggest problem for us right now is just plain lack of resources to do anything to even slow them down. As the US player I have a carrier that is waiting repair completion and another en route. Of the 2 carriers (the one's in the screen shot) at sea only one has it's whole air-group. The other was put ashore to help in OZ, which is critically short of planes of any type. Have lost many bases on the shipping route very early in this game because i didn't have forces to contest things. Am now just trying to husband forces and get ready to move west and reoccupy bases I need. Lack of a proper search network, which I am working on isn't helping at all. Also we have over 80 units in our land bases reinforcements that are organizing. Not sure if this is right, and have never seen that many backed up before. Anyway I am hardly down at this point, just hoping they give me some time to get ready for whatever comes next.

[Fishbed]

Ok there's bigger stuff going on, but I won't comment it here. Let's keep it a private initiative, and protect the beloved public from the sitcom aspect of our special relationship [;)]
Sorry, I was the first one to bring that up,

This said, I don't exactly agree with your comment about the fact I am not listening to your advices - we do, we just don't have the assets right now. Just remember we're only in the first week of January, and I managed to lose two of my most powerful units during such a surge. It won't happen again, but everyone needs a lil bit of R&R for now if we want to strike harder later on... Our options are to strike wherever they're weak, and wherever it will cost us nothing, and make them realize they have to escort every single TF behind their frontline. Don't worry, he'll have plenty opportunities in the months to come - strategically, SOPAC will be like a giant hole waiting to get plug. Right now, the initiative is just theirs, and most assets are involved in the DEI, and not in the Pacific anyway.

We'll strike. Just not now, and not there. But he'd better come with a good escort next time he sweeps Australia, because I can't guarantee we'll be so kind to him in 2 or 3 months from now.

[Fishbed]

@Galahad78

ORIGINAL: Galahad78
Will you then "concede" Darwin?

I think so. The more troops he commits to the area, the less troops he will have for anything more important. And Darwin, just now, is just another useless sh$thole to defend. Let's have him waste troops on such places, while he will be short-armed for the bigger stuff (on places he would expect things to get big [;)] )

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

@Galahad78

ORIGINAL: Galahad78
Will you then "concede" Darwin?

I think so.

What about the cattle? And Nicole Kidman? You're going to abandon the lot of them? [:-]

[Fishbed]

Don't worry. Nicole and the cute girls got prioritized and are in strategic mode for a couple turns already. The cattle is running to Katherine besides the train, with Nicole holding a long rod with a carrot at the boxcar's door (passenger cars are for real soldiers, damn it!).

I left the base force behind (for now). I don't expect much armed resistance, but if the Japs thought they were in for easy sex with Darwin girls, they're gonna get disappointed and somewhat roughed up.

[british exil]

Are the Allied forces still retreating? Or are they waiting in ambush positions?

Missing the fist that will deliver the punch to the Japanese expansion plans.

Looking forward to the next daring plan you've come up with to thwart the IJN and IJA.

Mat

[kfmiller41]

Just to update those who were following this thread, Fishbed has had to drop out due to real life stuff, but I have found a partner, Nomad who has kindly agreed to step in for him and take over the western side of the map, British, Chinese ect. We will have to work out who will command in Australia, as one person needs to run the defense of that front. Fishbed was handling the north and i was running the south but Nomad and I may change that. The game has slowed down to a crawl so there has been very little to post about. The US carriers are all still afloat, 2 in Pearl, and 3 en route there. Once there I will start running convoys with air cover to Christmas Island to build up the base. Their advance went so far beyond what I was used to seeing I am unsure how to respond[8|]

[kfmiller41]

here are some screen shots of the situation

[kfmiller41]

SW pacific