Night Intruder Support units

[CarnageINC]

I've notice under the allied night intruders there are electronic warfare aircraft. How do I go about using these? Do they jam radar? Thanks for the help so far. [;)]

[Dobey455]

You'll have to look at what they carry in their ECM suite.

Just off memory in the Aug 1943 start you have Mosquito RCM A/C which are ELINT A/C they don't jam, but if they get enough info from the radars they may speed up the development of jamming equiptment.
Then there are Wellington and Hallifax RCM A/C which carry window and can provide some "Jamming" or radar disruption (In groups) or also act as decoys.

Later you get mre A/C (Forts, Liberators and Lancs I believe) and you'll also get more advanced jamming equiptment. Can't remember the names but there are radio jammers that jam comms between the ground and the interceptors, there are jammers for AI radar as well i believe.

There is a thread in the forums here where some kind soul has listed all the ECM equiptment and what it does. I don't have the link handy, but you should find it easily enough in a search.

Good luck!

[CarnageINC]

Thanks Dobey, I search "ECM" and pow!  2 great links came up and they look very helpful.  Cheers mate 

[Hard Sarge]

okay good you found them

easy on, the Elint are deteactors and decoy, the jammers (with window) are, well, jammers

early on, the Wellies, will be weak jammers

you can send them out as a single mission (point) but there jamming is weak, better to send a few to the same area

or you can send them out on a stream mission (Area) you get about 6 planes, that follow each other, each pulse, each jammer gets a chance, so, much better odd's of one of them shutting something down

later jammers get much better

each jammer targets one type of enemy radar, but also has a smaller chance of jamming any radar

[Nicholas Bell]

For maximum effect on short-mid range missions, just set the Wimpy and Halifax RCM squadrons to follow the main raid and use multiple aircraft in the mission.  Edit each mission to the correct TOT since they fly faster than the Main Force.  If the target is long range, they won't be able to get all the way to the target, so just set the target point as far as you can in the general location of the Main Force mission path.  Requires some experimentation to find the max range.  Set the target point and then see if you can assign the unit - if not, then the target point is too far.  Shorten the range and try again.

If effective, the RCM will shut down certain radars - these will be displayed having reduced range rings even if you do not have radar range rings turned on.  The LW nightfighters are nearly totally ineffective if intercepting when the target is not within a red range ring, and will frequently break off an assigned intercept and reset themselves to patrolling - after which getting them reassigned to effectively intercept is well-nigh impossible.

Note that the effectiveness of RCM is apparently randomized on a day to day basis reflecting the back and forth nature of the technology fight.  On most days it works great (in fact, much better than historical) but on other days there is almost no impact on the German radar system and the LW nightfighter force will inflict heavy losses on BC.

[CarnageINC]

Great help guys, thanks alot. I didn't read this before posting this pic. but here is a minor raid will all my Halifax's doing a star burst raid. Does this look like I'm doing the right thing to get good effect with my decoy's and night fighters, which are strung along with various TOT for each raiding group. I have most Halifax in 2 squadron groups. I didn't think this was right to get much damage but I'm trying anyways.

Again Thanks for all the advice and help [;)]

[CarnageINC]

Okay, the raid above was not it or is 9.8% loss in Halifax normal for a raid.  I don't like it, I was going for less than 5%.  How do I inject NF in with the bombers?  Do I set them to patrol along the main stream at intervals between patrols?  Or is there some other solution to getting bombers escorted out?  It seems when I NF escort in there is no effect and only do I occasionally score a kill with them when patrolling above a known NF base.  I wish there was a way to mark on the map which AF had a/c and what type of a/c on them besides recon them every other day.  Even then I don't remember which fields hold NF and don't. [:@]
Thanks again for the help.

[CarnageINC]

Here is my most successful raid so far! WOOT! Only lost 2 decoy Wellies and only 4 Lanc's (none to NF, 2 to AAm 2 to Landings). My Lancasters were in 2 squadron groups, 3 per target, 3 targets for 432 total bombers. Thats a .93% loss rate....LESS THEN ONE PERCENT! [&o]

[Nicholas Bell]

My BC tactics are to mass 5-700 planes on a single target for maximum terror effect, with all RCM supporting that raid. So I can't really comment on your results.  My losses are usually 10-20 bombers (under 2%), except for when the RCM doesn't work.  Then I have losses up to 50-60 bombers.  But that has happened less than I can count on one hand and I am around turn 170.  My loss rates are less than 50% of historical BC losses.  Supposedly moonlight level should hurt BC, but I just ignore it. Doesn't make much difference, if any.

As discussed in other threads, you can use your nightfighters in your bomber stream just like the RCM planes (hit follow and click single plane button to multiply so you get 1/2 of available planes.  I usually fly 2 squadrons (12 Mossie 13's total) and in 5 months they have shot down 3-4 fighters.  Not very effective, but realistic.

If you want really hit the LW nightfighter forces, you have to swarm their bases with relays of intruders over the entire night. You have to do this manually - very tedious.   I don't do this because it simply was not done historically.  I let the AI assign the NF intruders and they normally down 1-2 per night operating.  This is actually more than what was accomplished historically - the Germans never feared the intruders enough to institute any specific tactical refinements other than keeping the lights off and informing their planes to land elsewhere.  Most German NF losses were operation, and this is effectively reflected in the game. 

The key to letting the AI handle the intruder operations is to maintain up-to-date recon on the German airfields.  If recon shows planes on the field, the AI with assign the location a single intruder.  Set the BC target to primary airfield and click the plot intruder operations until there are no more available resources.  The AI does not use all the RAF nightfighters because they are not in the proper command.  This is historical too, as the majority of RAF nightfighters were used defending Britain.

[Hard Sarge]

Nick

one thing that you may be seeing is the moon, when the moon is up, losses also climb, really radar is only trying to get the pilot with in sight range of the target, once the pilot can see the target, it is normally bad news

seach lights, fires over a city also can help

[Nicholas Bell]

HS - I know it "should" but I just haven't seen it.  I've flown with 12% moonlight IIRC and suffered less than 1% losses despite 500+ LW sorties and hundreds of contacts.  As we've discussed though, there are so many variables involved in the program if I were to bother to refly the mission I might have horrible losses.  All a matter of the randomization results.  I have seen a minor "bump" with the burning city effect.  What is really interesting is I switched the 300 series JGs to Ju-88c's from single engine NF's and they are out scoring all the other night jaegers. 

[Dobey455]

ORIGINAL: Nicholas Bell

HS - I know it "should" but I just haven't seen it.  I've flown with 12% moonlight IIRC and suffered less than 1% losses despite 500+ LW sorties and hundreds of contacts.  As we've discussed though, there are so many variables involved in the program if I were to bother to refly the mission I might have horrible losses.  All a matter of the randomization results.  I have seen a minor "bump" with the burning city effect.  What is really interesting is I switched the 300 series JGs to Ju-88c's from single engine NF's and they are out scoring all the other night jaegers. 

I can certainly confirm that on really bright nights my BC losses have roughly tripled. Normally I loose about 3% - 8% depending on the target. My last few nights I have flown deep missions on 24%, 26% and 24% moonlight nights. (Target Berlin in all three cases). losses went from about 5% - 9% when I last hit Berlin a couple weeks ago to around 15% to 20%.

The NJ were simply launching many more attacks.....BUT...so were the RAF NI units. The German NF losses also soared and I got a couple of kills in the stream - which as Nick says is pretty rare.

From what I've seen the moon has to bee really bright to make much difference, aroun 20% or more and if you are only going as far as the Rhur it probably won't make so much difference cause the NF's don't have time to swamp the stream.

[Nicholas Bell]

ORIGINAL: Dobey
going as far as the Rhur it probably won't make so much difference cause the NF's don't have time to swamp the stream.

So true. One key factor in successful LW nightfighter interceptions (I have not seen mentioned before), is the amount time the fighters spend in the stream. The chances of successful sighting are minuscule per minute, so you need a lot of minutes to garner enough sightings to play the equally small odds of actual attack to achieve meaning full results. So interception endurance is critical. The somewhat short-legged He 219 is hampered by this and my longer endurance Ju-88c units continue to outscore them despite older radar equipment and less experience.

I can certainly confirm that on really bright nights my BC losses have roughly tripled.

More evidence of how luck/randomization can make something seem wrong, when it really is fine. Guess I'll keep flying by moonlight to see it happen...eventually.

[CarnageINC]

If NF's are getting most of their kills in the stream, why have one main stream back to Britain?  Why not dilute into many or even individual streams to make odds even lower?