wif computer game

[composer99]

Bo, are you talking about the impulse call required to launch an invasion?

While I imagine you may be familiar with some of the concepts I will discuss, I will assume otherwise for the sake of completeness.

If you are invading anywhere via landing units (whether Normandy or a Pacific island), the major powers whose land units are invading will need to call either a combined impulse or a land impulse, as land moves and land attacks will need to be available.

Optionally, if the major powers have offensive chits available, they can call a combined impulse and spend an offensive chit, thus getting the action limits of calling naval, land, and air impulses simultaneously.

By contrast, as a major power calling naval impulse receives neither land moves nor land attacks, its own land units would not be available to participate.

An invasion of a single hex, for example, could be done on a combined impulse, requiring no more than 2-3 land moves and (I believe) 1 land attack.

An Overlord-style invasion of France, invading onto 2-3 (or more) hexes, would require that the major powers conducting it either set up in advance with a naval impulse and then call a land impulse for the invasion, or call "super" combined impulses (the colloquial term for combined impulses in which an offensive chit is used).

EXAMPLE #1: The United States (US) player wishes to liberate Guam from the Japanese. Assuming the Japanese have a single infantry division defending the hex (plus the optional notional unit), the US player could call a combined impulse, sail out task forces with the invading units (say, a Marine corps, an Infantry corps, and a Marine division), supporting battleships & carriers, fly land-based or carrier air to disorganize the division, then invade (requiring 3 land moves and 1 land attack for the three units).

EXAMPLE #2: The US and Commonwealth (CW) players are invading France. They each have one offensive chit set aside for the invasion. They decide to use the offensive chits to call "super" combined impulses. This allows them to do all of the following on the same impulse:
- send out convoy defences (if required)
- operations in other theatres (such as the Pacific or Italy)
- sail out the invading and supporting forces
- strategic bombing of Germany
- ground strikes of all Axis forces in France that are in range of Allied bombers - they want the Germans to be helpless to resist the invasion and/or incapable of counter-attacking
- the invasion, using a mix of paratroopers and units invading from the sea
- rebasing short-range fighters to the successful invasion hexes

I hope that this explanation is both clear and complete.

[SamuraiProgrmmr]

ORIGINAL: MajorDude

Lol, there was no way we were ever going to be able to put the game on the "dining room" table - most of our games ran 8 to 9 months.

Part of my 'unwritten' prenuptual agreement was that the dining room table was mine for weekends except on family holidays. [:'(]

ORIGINAL: MajorDude

I had made a really cool double section reinforced thick 5' x 8' plywood smooth finish for the playing side table for some of our large tabletop miniatures gaming. That allowed me to use one of the sections, 5' x 4', set up on portable sawhorses, with the maps firmly clipped to the plywood surfaces.

I put that up in the corner of my home office, and we tried to play at least once every weekend if we could. Many of our gaming sessions would be all nighters and we would break as the sun was coming up and the sleepiness started taking over. I always made sure to have plenty of food on hand so we could all break at the same time for our evening repast.

One of the biggest difficulties I had with such a lengthy play session was that after a few months, I had to go in with dental precision to get the inevitable dust off the map and counters without messing anything up. It was indeed a challenge, but we were all so happy to see the counters shine again.

A friend built a cabinet with rails for me for very little more than materials. I placed the map sections on 3/8" plywood and convered it with plexiglass (later I just decopaged them on). After each gaming session, we would carefully slide each section into the cabinent. No dust problems. No cat problems. Just had to be careful moving things.

ORIGINAL: MajorDude


Another problem we had was lighting, I had to resort to halogen lamps to generate enough lumens so we could all see the numbers on the counters - the CW blue was always a problem. We also always had at least 2 players who volunteered to "clean up" the counter stacks for those players who didn't have even enough deft dexterity to change most light bulbs without breaking 1 or 2 first lol. Yes, all thumb players in WiF can sometimes be a problem, "Now just exactly which hex is the chaotic pile of stuff supposed to be in anyway?"...

Yes lighting was always an issue. The glare was a killer. We used 'bankers lamps' with adjustable necks until I got one of those circular flourescent lights with a magnifying glass in the middle that could be clamped to the side of the table. It helped a lot.

ORIGINAL: MajorDude


Still another difficulty was dice rolls. Some of us were really good at rolling 6's (yes, we were still using the 6 sided die). A six-sided die has a more natural tendency to land with the 6 side on top because there are 6 pip holes in that side as opposed to 1 pip hole on the opposite side, thus making it less dense. Our solution was to use 2 sets of 2 packs of playing cards that worked quite well. We thought of using the computer to generate random numbers until a programmer friend of ours demonstrated to us how computers (at least then) don't really generate random numbers...

We used heavy dice in glass tumblers. They made lots of noise, but they seemed to be random enough for me. Later, we started using a 'dice wand'. These were popular with D&D players back in the 70s and 80s. The guy I played with had a belief that the dice hated him, but he trusted the electronics. Go figure.

Those were the days.

[MajorDude]

ORIGINAL: composer99

Bo, are you talking about the impulse call required to launch an invasion?

While I imagine you may be familiar with some of the concepts I will discuss, I will assume otherwise for the sake of completeness.

If you are invading anywhere via landing units (whether Normandy or a Pacific island), the major powers whose land units are invading will need to call either a combined impulse or a land impulse, as land moves and land attacks will need to be available.

Optionally, if the major powers have offensive chits available, they can call a combined impulse and spend an offensive chit, thus getting the action limits of calling naval, land, and air impulses simultaneously.

By contrast, as a major power calling naval impulse receives neither land moves nor land attacks, its own land units would not be available to participate.

An invasion of a single hex, for example, could be done on a combined impulse, requiring no more than 2-3 land moves and (I believe) 1 land attack.

An Overlord-style invasion of France, invading onto 2-3 (or more) hexes, would require that the major powers conducting it either set up in advance with a naval impulse and then call a land impulse for the invasion, or call "super" combined impulses (the colloquial term for combined impulses in which an offensive chit is used).

EXAMPLE #1: The United States (US) player wishes to liberate Guam from the Japanese. Assuming the Japanese have a single infantry division defending the hex (plus the optional notional unit), the US player could call a combined impulse, sail out task forces with the invading units (say, a Marine corps, an Infantry corps, and a Marine division), supporting battleships & carriers, fly land-based or carrier air to disorganize the division, then invade (requiring 3 land moves and 1 land attack for the three units).

EXAMPLE #2: The US and Commonwealth (CW) players are invading France. They each have one offensive chit set aside for the invasion. They decide to use the offensive chits to call "super" combined impulses. This allows them to do all of the following on the same impulse:
- send out convoy defences (if required)
- operations in other theatres (such as the Pacific or Italy)
- sail out the invading and supporting forces
- strategic bombing of Germany
- ground strikes of all Axis forces in France that are in range of Allied bombers - they want the Germans to be helpless to resist the invasion and/or incapable of counter-attacking
- the invasion, using a mix of paratroopers and units invading from the sea
- rebasing short-range fighters to the successful invasion hexes

I hope that this explanation is both clear and complete.

So, whereas the Guam invasion could be done 'easily' within at least normal combined impulse limitations, an Overlord type invasion would almost require an offensive chit to play out as it did historically?

Good, clear explanation!

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: MajorDude


So, whereas the Guam invasion could be done 'easily' within at least normal combined impulse limitations, an Overlord type invasion would almost require an offensive chit to play out as it did historically?

An Overlord type invasion could be done by USA and CW both play a normal combined impule.

Sending the invasion forces out require 1 naval move for both nations. USA invanding with 2 corps and 1 division in one hex and making a paradrop with 1 corps in another hex is in total 4 land moves and 2 land attacks. CW invading with 2 corps and 1 division in one hex is 3 land moves and 1 land attack.

The strength used in my example seems comparable to the historical Overlord operation and it can easily be done with a combined impulse for both nations.

EDIT: USA has 3 naval moves, 4 land moves and 2 land attacks during a combined impulse. CW has 2 naval moves, 3 land moves and 1 land attack during a combined impulse.

[MajorDude]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: MajorDude


So, whereas the Guam invasion could be done 'easily' within at least normal combined impulse limitations, an Overlord type invasion would almost require an offensive chit to play out as it did historically?

An Overlord type invasion could be done by USA and CW both play a normal combined impule.

Sending the invasion forces out require 1 naval move for both nations. USA invanding with 2 corps and 1 division in one hex and making a paradrop with 1 corps in another hex is in total 4 land moves and 2 land attacks. CW invading with 2 corps and 1 division in one hex is 3 land moves and 1 land attack.

The strength used in my example seems comparable to the historical Overlord operation and it can easily be done with a combined impulse for both nations.

EDIT: USA has 3 naval moves, 4 land moves and 2 land attacks during a combined impulse. CW has 2 naval moves, 3 land moves and 1 land attack during a combined impulse.

Cool! Okay guys, time to build some boats and planes...

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: MajorDude


So, whereas the Guam invasion could be done 'easily' within at least normal combined impulse limitations, an Overlord type invasion would almost require an offensive chit to play out as it did historically?

An Overlord type invasion could be done by USA and CW both play a normal combined impule.

Sending the invasion forces out require 1 naval move for both nations. USA invanding with 2 corps and 1 division in one hex and making a paradrop with 1 corps in another hex is in total 4 land moves and 2 land attacks. CW invading with 2 corps and 1 division in one hex is 3 land moves and 1 land attack.

The strength used in my example seems comparable to the historical Overlord operation and it can easily be done with a combined impulse for both nations.

EDIT: USA has 3 naval moves, 4 land moves and 2 land attacks during a combined impulse. CW has 2 naval moves, 3 land moves and 1 land attack during a combined impulse.

Or really game the action limits with the CW taking a naval and providing all the lift, and the US taking a land and doing all the invading.

The planning in this game is half the fun... right up until it's ruined by the weather, the turn ending or some distracting thing the opposition does!

[bo]

Got you guys thinking wetting your lips for Steve's and Matrix's version huh!. Crystal clear Major Dude [what movie do I remeber that from[:)] I notice it keeps aking me about a notional unit [spelled right?] with a defense factor of one and additional defense factors if in a town etc. I think the US has more moves than Japan does in a combo move have to check. In the Barbarossa scenerio as I am attacking into Russia [starting to understand the land game a little better] the naval game is killing me[&:] I want to land troops into Lativia by invasion methods, I sail with an combat unit into the sea, clear weather and keep waiting for the invasion pop up but the only thing I get is disembarking troops pop up, then it goes onto re-airbase move after move, impulse after impulse, one time a couple of days ago I saw the invasion pop dont know how I got there but will keep trying, the nicest thing about the computer is when I get frustrated I turn the stinkin computer off[:D] what did you guys do to the board game, BURN it? Sorry to sound so stupid but you remember some of my past posts so what else is new.



Bo

[SamuraiProgrmmr]

Hey! NO MATTER WHAT!!! --- Don't feel stupid. This is a complex game. It takes time to adapt. You seem to be doing a wonderful job at it. Keep It Up.

It has been so long since I played that I will soon be turning to you for advice. (Not being flip - I expect it to be the case)

As for the frustration, there were a few arguments. Ok. More than a few.



It seems to me that the invasion should actually take place during land movement.... If I am wrong, someone please correct me.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: bo

Got you guys thinking wetting your lips for Steve's and Matrix's version huh!. Crystal clear Major Dude [what movie do I remeber that from[:)] I notice it keeps aking me about a notional unit [spelled right?] with a defense factor of one and additional defense factors if in a town etc. I think the US has more moves than Japan does in a combo move have to check. In the Barbarossa scenerio as I am attacking into Russia [starting to understand the land game a little better] the naval game is killing me[&:] I want to land troops into Lativia by invasion methods, I sail with an combat unit into the sea, clear weather and keep waiting for the invasion pop up but the only thing I get is disembarking troops pop up, then it goes onto re-airbase move after move, impulse after impulse, one time a couple of days ago I saw the invasion pop dont know how I got there but will keep trying, the nicest thing about the computer is when I get frustrated I turn the stinkin computer off[:D] what did you guys do to the board game, BURN it? Sorry to sound so stupid but you remember some of my past posts so what else is new.



Bo

It seems like you are taking a naval impulse (for the Germans?). There aren't any land moves or land attaks for a major power that takes a naval move.

To invade you need to take either a Land or Combined for the major power controlling the land units you want to invade with.

[Orm]

Greetings Bo.

I remember that using this table alot when I learned to play the game. I think it will help you with your trouble with impulses and invasions and on many more occasions.

One of the nice things with this table is that the activities is listed in the order they happen in the impulse. First thing that happens in the impulse is at the top following each step down to the last thing happening in the impulse at the bottom.

Keep up the good work in mastering the rules. [&o]

Best Regards

[composer99]

Both disembarking and invasion require land moves, so Bo would need to do at least a combined impulse do do either.

Bo, I would not ever worry about feeling stupid when inquiring about either the rules or the CWiF user interface. I play, on average, once a week every week in a tabletop game, and we refer to the rulebook to confirm something two to three times a game session.

Also, every so often we discover we are playing a rule incorrectly over several weeks. Usually this is one of the house rules we use, but on occasion it is an important core rule.

CWiF's user interface was not particularly good if I recall correctly, so I shouldn't be surprised if you run into chronic problems there, either.

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: bo

Got you guys thinking wetting your lips for Steve's and Matrix's version huh!. Crystal clear Major Dude [what movie do I remeber that from[:)] I notice it keeps aking me about a notional unit [spelled right?] with a defense factor of one and additional defense factors if in a town etc. I think the US has more moves than Japan does in a combo move have to check. In the Barbarossa scenerio as I am attacking into Russia [starting to understand the land game a little better] the naval game is killing me[&:] I want to land troops into Lativia by invasion methods, I sail with an combat unit into the sea, clear weather and keep waiting for the invasion pop up but the only thing I get is disembarking troops pop up, then it goes onto re-airbase move after move, impulse after impulse, one time a couple of days ago I saw the invasion pop dont know how I got there but will keep trying, the nicest thing about the computer is when I get frustrated I turn the stinkin computer off[:D] what did you guys do to the board game, BURN it? Sorry to sound so stupid but you remember some of my past posts so what else is new.



Bo

Sounds like you have the unit on the ship and impulse after impulse can't get an invasion dialog. Possible problems:
1. weather - you can't invade in snow or storm or blizzard
2. not in a box you can invade from (i.e the zero box)
3. Units are on TRSs not Amphs and you have the Amph option turned on
4. you are not yet at war with anyone whose hexes you can invade - you need to make a declaration of war
5. (very unlikely if #4 is not the problem) there are no invadeable enemy hexes touching upon the sea zone - to be invadeable they have to have a full sea hexside
Edit 6. Your unit on the TRS is of a type that cannot invade - mech, armor, arty, cavalry...

If you've downloaded the rules of the game from the ADG site, reading just section 11.14 will tell you a lot more about this and tell you about notionals as well. CWIF may be asking you if you want to use the notional unit for defence (doing so is optional even though it might mean an auto-victory for the attacker) and if you cancel out of the question you can't go further with the invasion. That part is in 11.16.

[bo]

Thanks everyone the correct answer was ground action I was using naval and combined and the one time that the invasion popped up was in a land delclaration but I was so confused[&:] I didnt put two and two together, I assumed it had to be naval to invade, and you no what assuming does. Does anyone here play solitare [not much fun] if they cant get together at someones house anymore, and if you do how do you handle it, I believe dice can alter any best laid plans, I appreciate everyone coming to my aid in time of need after being a jerk with aggravating posts, I am so pleased that I will give Steve two years and then I am going to get realy nasty[:D] or as Adolph Hitler once said if I ever come back again it wont be as mister nice guy.[:-]

Bo

[SamuraiProgrmmr]

Bo,

If you want any more confirmation at how difficult rules interpretation can be for this game, I have a place for you to go....

groups.yahoo.com --- look for the wifdiscussion group. This should give you lots and lots of fun!