SBD-3 production is wrong

[spence]

According to the devs the production of the SBD-3 and the SBD-4 are combined (since the only difference in the aircraft was the voltage of the electrical systems). The rate allowed the Allied Player is 21 aircraft per month.

Douglas Aircraft produced 584 SBD-3s starting deliveries in March 1941. A production rate of 30 SBD-3s/month starting March 41 and ending Sept 42 gives 570 machines with all but a handful being sent to the Pacific Fleet (according to bi-weekly USN reports "Locations of Navy Aircraft"). This rate also seems to account for more or less all the SBD-3s produced at just the right time to match when Douglas started deliveries of 780 SBD-4s in October 1942.

SBD-4 production then continued until Douglas started delivering SBD-5s in May 1943 (7 months at 110 aircraft per month). Most of the SBD-4s went to the Pacific as well.

Also bearing on the matter is that the same "Locations of Navy Aircraft" shows the Atlantic Fleet carrier (Ranger and some CVEs) and carriers fitting out as operating Vindicators and Helldivers in their VS/VB squadrons at least until Torch and even then only a few of the VS/VBs were SBDs.

[topeverest]

Let me suggest using the editor to make these changes if your reference points are the way you want to set them. The beautiful thing is you can set them exactly the way you want to if you dont like where they are.

[Nomad]

Wasn't this thread you started enough on this subject?

[Misconduct]

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Wasn't this thread you started enough on this subject?

I agree, using search tends to narrow down multiple threads on same subject that have been resolved.

[Nomad]

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Wasn't this thread you started enough on this subject?

I agree, using search tends to narrow down multiple threads on same subject that have been resolved.

My real problem is that spence started the thread I referenced.

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: spence

According to the devs the production of the SBD-3 and the SBD-4 are combined (since the only difference in the aircraft was the voltage of the electrical systems). The rate allowed the Allied Player is 21 aircraft per month.

That and the propeller. The -4 had a constant speed propeller and the -3 had an older prop design.

The next patch will not have data changes. A future patch might address this.

In the meantime, clone whatever scenario you want to a new slot, either change the -3 production or add the -4 type and set its production accordingly. There are many good artists here who could easily make a side and top for the -4 and there are plenty of empty slots in the aircraft database.

It's easy to make your own mod, especially for something like this.

Bill

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: topeverest

Let me suggest using the editor to make these changes if your reference points are the way you want to set them. The beautiful thing is you can set them exactly the way you want to if you dont like where they are.

the problem with saying we can edit all and everything often is the fact that people (me to some point included) are not really keen to start "non official scenarios" because you most often don´t know what you jump into. Even if you are told "I only changed the SBD replacement rate", this could be enough to keep people from playing you.

I also prefer playing the official scenarios that can´t be changed. Against the AI you can of course do whatever you want to, but PBEM...

[chesmart]

Agree with Castor here we need an Update data Patch for OOB errors in the official scenarios, or we can have a centralised list somwhere so people can use it as a reference to update the scenario.

[Grit]

When you make changes to the game in the editor to reflect a more accurate game are you then able to play PBEM with that change?

If not, wouldn't it be better to simply correct the scenarios already in the game? If it can be agreed on that there is a problem why not simply correct it? Of course agreeing on the problem might be the problem.

[n01487477]

ORIGINAL: Grit

When you make changes to the game in the editor to reflect a more accurate game are you then able to play PBEM with that change?

Yeah, but not for the official scenario's ... the slots don't allow this, but if you copy the scenario to another game slot and start your PBEM game with this then you can change it on the fly ...

[Smeulders]

The number of SBD-3 and SBD-4 in the game

- 55 At start
- 7 In pool at start
- 56 Produced for NZ
- 357 Produced for USA
- 6 Arriving in NZ Units
- 478 Arriving in USA units. A note on this number, tracker will only give you a total of 398 arriving in USA units, however, there are several USMC DB units that are withdrawn and then return as a units with SBD-3 planes. These are not shown in tracker (as they only enter the reinforcement queue when the original is withdrawn, however, they can be found in the editor. 80 planes arrive in this way.

This gives a total of 959 SBD-3 and SBD-4 arriving in the game. Compared to a total production of 1364 planes, this means that 70% of the total production can be used for combat duties. Whether this number is too low or not depends on the number used in other theatres, how many were used for testing and training instead of combat and also the operational losses these planes suffered before they could be given to a squadron. If the SBD-3 and 4 aren't split up, then the maximum production can be 44 planes over the 17 month span, which would give 1350 planes arriving in total.

[Rob Brennan UK]

Can someone please change the record , heard it all before [8|]

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Grit

When you make changes to the game in the editor to reflect a more accurate game are you then able to play PBEM with that change?

Yes.

[JWE]

Sy'mon says, lots of people thinkin lots 'o ways 'bout the same stuff. But think, meself that Cpt'n timtom have a hard hold on what be. I like this man, he may be little and he may be white and he may be Euro, but his stuff is 'hap'ning', and all that other stuff is 'I wanna'.

Now Sy'mon ain't no Cassandra, but think ya'll need to find another tree to go pee on, 'cause Sy'mon don't t'ink that dog's gonna hunt, and that one ain't gonna be hap'ning.

Rasta rules. John/Sy'mon.

[chesmart]

JWE personally i think we have to have at least a mod where the data errors in the Game are updated, or we can have an data update for new games so at least we could have better scenarios. I know that it could create problems for ongoing games but it could be an update which only people who are going to start new games would use. In my game vs the AI i edited these data errors but it would be easier if we know which are the data errors instead of editing each time.

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: che200
JWE personally i think we have to have at least a mod where the data errors in the Game are updated, or we can have an data update for new games so at least we could have better scenarios. I know that it could create problems for ongoing games but it could be an update which only people who are going to start new games would use. In my game vs the AI i edited these data errors but it would be easier if we know which are the data errors instead of editing each time.

So what's to stop ya'll from making one?

It's not a data error, it's a difference of opinion and, frankly, I'll listen to Mr timtom above any collection of other people, as regards opinion. This man's sources, analyses, and game integrations are cleaner than anything I have seen anywhere else. I have learned to trust his judgment implicitly.

I have supported many tweaks, some of them unpopular, but I don't don't support this one. Sorry, but my vote is no.

[ETF]

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

The number of SBD-3 and SBD-4 in the game

- 55 At start
- 7 In pool at start
- 56 Produced for NZ
- 357 Produced for USA
- 6 Arriving in NZ Units
- 478 Arriving in USA units. A note on this number, tracker will only give you a total of 398 arriving in USA units, however, there are several USMC DB units that are withdrawn and then return as a units with SBD-3 planes. These are not shown in tracker (as they only enter the reinforcement queue when the original is withdrawn, however, they can be found in the editor. 80 planes arrive in this way.

This gives a total of 959 SBD-3 and SBD-4 arriving in the game. Compared to a total production of 1364 planes, this means that 70% of the total production can be used for combat duties. Whether this number is too low or not depends on the number used in other theatres, how many were used for testing and training instead of combat and also the operational losses these planes suffered before they could be given to a squadron. If the SBD-3 and 4 aren't split up, then the maximum production can be 44 planes over the 17 month span, which would give 1350 planes arriving in total.

Why was this left out of the game? Seems to be a glaring error.
Obviously I am missing another thread form JWE's posting. You would think production #s for the US would be straight forword. I take it is not. Oh well.

[chesmart]

I am not arguing in favor of  the SBD production John but in regarding other small OOB errors like the 25pounder production and some errors in the ground units which where discussed in the war room. Tweaking should be left to the Modders.

[Smeulders]

ORIGINAL: ETF

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

The number of SBD-3 and SBD-4 in the game

- 55 At start
- 7 In pool at start
- 56 Produced for NZ
- 357 Produced for USA
- 6 Arriving in NZ Units
- 478 Arriving in USA units. A note on this number, tracker will only give you a total of 398 arriving in USA units, however, there are several USMC DB units that are withdrawn and then return as a units with SBD-3 planes. These are not shown in tracker (as they only enter the reinforcement queue when the original is withdrawn, however, they can be found in the editor. 80 planes arrive in this way.

This gives a total of 959 SBD-3 and SBD-4 arriving in the game. Compared to a total production of 1364 planes, this means that 70% of the total production can be used for combat duties. Whether this number is too low or not depends on the number used in other theatres, how many were used for testing and training instead of combat and also the operational losses these planes suffered before they could be given to a squadron. If the SBD-3 and 4 aren't split up, then the maximum production can be 44 planes over the 17 month span, which would give 1350 planes arriving in total.

Why was this left out of the game? Seems to be a glaring error.
Obviously I am missing another thread form JWE's posting. You would think production #s for the US would be straight forword. I take it is not. Oh well.

What was left out of the game ? Are you referring to the 30% produced but not available ? If so, your answer is in my post, planes used in other theatres, all non-combat duties and operational losses before they could reach their units. This 70% percentage may be too low or too high, but that is a difference in opinion and not a glaring error.

[Grit]

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

ORIGINAL: ETF

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

The number of SBD-3 and SBD-4 in the game

- 55 At start
- 7 In pool at start
- 56 Produced for NZ
- 357 Produced for USA
- 6 Arriving in NZ Units
- 478 Arriving in USA units. A note on this number, tracker will only give you a total of 398 arriving in USA units, however, there are several USMC DB units that are withdrawn and then return as a units with SBD-3 planes. These are not shown in tracker (as they only enter the reinforcement queue when the original is withdrawn, however, they can be found in the editor. 80 planes arrive in this way.

This gives a total of 959 SBD-3 and SBD-4 arriving in the game. Compared to a total production of 1364 planes, this means that 70% of the total production can be used for combat duties. Whether this number is too low or not depends on the number used in other theatres, how many were used for testing and training instead of combat and also the operational losses these planes suffered before they could be given to a squadron. If the SBD-3 and 4 aren't split up, then the maximum production can be 44 planes over the 17 month span, which would give 1350 planes arriving in total.

Why was this left out of the game? Seems to be a glaring error.
Obviously I am missing another thread form JWE's posting. You would think production #s for the US would be straight forword. I take it is not. Oh well.

What was left out of the game ? Are you referring to the 30% produced but not available ? If so, your answer is in my post, planes used in other theatres, all non-combat duties and operational losses before they could reach their units. This 70% percentage may be too low or too high, but that is a difference in opinion and not a glaring error.

This video may shed some light on the issue.

7x13=28