SBD-3 production is wrong
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: SBD-3 production is wrong
XXXX
"After eight years as President I have only two regrets: that I have not shot Henry Clay or hanged John C. Calhoun."--1837
RE: SBD-3 production is wrong
[:D]
And people claim humanity has made 'progress' in the decades since then!
Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home
RE: SBD-3 production is wrong
The number of SBD-3 and SBD-4 in the game
- 55 At start
- 7 In pool at start
- 56 Produced for NZ
- 357 Produced for USA
- 6 Arriving in NZ Units
- 478 Arriving in USA units. A note on this number, tracker will only give you a total of 398 arriving in USA units, however, there are several USMC DB units that are withdrawn and then return as a units with SBD-3 planes. These are not shown in tracker (as they only enter the reinforcement queue when the original is withdrawn, however, they can be found in the editor. 80 planes arrive in this way.
This gives a total of 959 SBD-3 and SBD-4 arriving in the game. Compared to a total production of 1364 planes, this means that 70% of the total production can be used for combat duties. Whether this number is too low or not depends on the number used in other theatres, how many were used for testing and training instead of combat and also the operational losses these planes suffered before they could be given to a squadron. If the SBD-3 and 4 aren't split up, then the maximum production can be 44 planes over the 17 month span, which would give 1350 planes arriving in total.
If you check the "Location of Navy Aircraft" files for most of 1942 there are no SBDs of any model assigned to the Atlantic Fleet. In October 42 a few are assigned to CVEs participating in Torch (the USS Ranger soldiers on with Vindicators though). By June 1943 there are 115 SBD3/4s in the Atlantic AOR: 29 on the Ranger, 26 on CVEs serving with LANTFLT, 29 with 3rd MAW at Cherry Point and the remainder assigned to CVs/CVLs fitting out for service with PACFLT.
Army A-24As (SBD-3) and A-24B (SBD-4) are not included at all in the 1364 total for SBD-3 and SBD-4 production nor are 60 A-24Bs that were given by the Army to the Marine Corps as (officially) SBD-5a's. Army A-24 production numbers should be added to Navy production numbers to arrive at totals for the SBD (all models).
Thus it seems the discrepancy grows.
RE: SBD-3 production is wrong
I understand. I was just trying to let you down gently ... but ...ORIGINAL: che200
I am not arguing in favor of the SBD production John but in regarding other small OOB errors like the 25pounder production and some errors in the ground units which where discussed in the war room. Tweaking should be left to the Modders.
Anything (ANYTHING), that is a matter of opinion, will not (NOT), that's .. N.. O .. T .. (a one sylable word, easily understood), be included in a future data patch unless something is "demonstrably" and "verifyably" wrong (opinion does not count), including "demonstrable" and "verifyable" primary source data (wikiporkia and 'my favorite website' won't cut it). If you truly think you have something, the folks to talk to are:
Air - timtom: a real hard a$$, you better have your poopie together for this guy; and he talks to Elf.
Nav - me or Don: Don's a sweetie, but I'm a real ba$tard, so you best have your poopie together.
Land - AndyMac: touchable, probably the nicest of us, but has the hardest job; give him a break.
RE: SBD-3 production is wrong
If you check the "Location of Navy Aircraft" files for most of 1942 there are no SBDs of any model assigned to the Atlantic Fleet. In October 42 a few are assigned to CVEs participating in Torch (the USS Ranger soldiers on with Vindicators though). By June 1943 there are 115 SBD3/4s in the Atlantic AOR: 29 on the Ranger, 26 on CVEs serving with LANTFLT, 29 with 3rd MAW at Cherry Point and the remainder assigned to CVs/CVLs fitting out for service with PACFLT.
Army A-24As (SBD-3) and A-24B (SBD-4) are not included at all in the 1364 total for SBD-3 and SBD-4 production nor are 60 A-24Bs that were given by the Army to the Marine Corps as (officially) SBD-5a's. Army A-24 production numbers should be added to Navy production numbers to arrive at totals for the SBD (all models).
Thus it seems the discrepancy grows.
Except the A-24 is in the game as a separate plane, so I see no reason to somehow add them to the 1364 used for SBD-3 and SBD-4.
Now, from your own sources, there are 84 SBD assigned to the Atlantic at that point in time, so there is a maximum of 1280 SBD-3/4 for the pacific. A couple of assumptions for this.
1) No SBD-3/4 were lost in the Atlantic prior to this peak of 84, this seems like a very generous assumption, not having this assumption would lower the 1280 number.
2) After this peak, no SBD were shipped to the Atlantic to replace any losses.
2) None of the SBD used in the Atlantic were transferred there from the Pacific.
3) None of the SBD used in the Atlantic at the peak were transferred to the Pacific. (Except those on the CV/CVL working up, but these aren't included in the 84). Not a strong assumption, given that SBD-5 production had already started, and enough SBD-3 were retiring in the pacific to reinforce units that still flew the plane, without any need for transfers from the Atlantic.
So using the 1280 number, we get 75% of SBD-3/4 production that went to the Pacific available in the game, note that this is in part based on the very generous assumptions 1 and 2. The bare minimum is still 70% and that is assuming every SBD ever used in the Atlantic was shipped there after prior use in the Pacific. With the numbers now provided, the only question is, do you believe it is realistic that 25% or less of planes produced never made it to active duty. That's a question that someone with more expertise than me should answer though.
The AE-Wiki, help fill it out
RE: SBD-3 production is wrong
XXX
"After eight years as President I have only two regrets: that I have not shot Henry Clay or hanged John C. Calhoun."--1837
RE: SBD-3 production is wrong
Ok got the point John. The best solution then will be to try and centralise these Data errors and make them in a thread in the Mod forum.
RE: SBD-3 production is wrong
XXX
"After eight years as President I have only two regrets: that I have not shot Henry Clay or hanged John C. Calhoun."--1837
RE: SBD-3 production is wrong
Yeah? Same stuff as the last 5 threads and actually less than the data we got; but keep trying.ORIGINAL: Termite2
SBD-4 production by Douglas production numbers
So do you have a point that hasn't been made and dealt (repeatedly) with over the last six months?
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Misconduct
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RE: SBD-3 production is wrong
ORIGINAL: JWE
Yeah? Same stuff as the last 5 threads and actually less than the data we got; but keep trying.ORIGINAL: Termite2
SBD-4 production by Douglas production numbers
So do you have a point that hasn't been made and dealt (repeatedly) with over the last six months?
Queue the next forum thread with "omg wrong numbers" in 2 weeks.
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RE: SBD-3 production is wrong
XXX
"After eight years as President I have only two regrets: that I have not shot Henry Clay or hanged John C. Calhoun."--1837
RE: SBD-3 production is wrong
If the Allied Player had the ability to fight 4 "bloody" carrier battles and a number of other skirmishes during 1942 and still have enough SBD-3s to maintain his (remaining) carrier VB and VS squadrons at something like full strength while at the same time giving the USMC a few SBD-"3"s I wouldn't have any problem with the game's numbers.
But it was the IJN that showed up for "The Decisive Battle" (Midway & Aleutians) borrowing attack planes and Zeros from land based squadrons to man its carriers. The game theoretically allows the IJ Player to correct whatever deficiencies in IJ production which led to this situation but no such option exists for the Allied Player. It would therefore seem absolutely vital that the numbers allowed in Allied production be correct and that no assumptions about where the planes were deployed be allowed (Such as that the New Zealanders got shiny new airplanes for their No.25 Squadron instead of bullet riddled and broken down rejects from MAG-14 (already deployed to SOPAC and not until several months after deliveries of SBD-5s began).
So maybe there are assumptions implicit in the citing the "Locations of Navy Aircraft" reports. But none of the "Locations of Navy Aircraft" reports (every two weeks or so in 1942/43) support the contention that very many SBD-3/4s went to the Atlantic at any time (thus operational/combat losses were insignificant). On the other hand there were quite a few SBD-3/4 aircraft shot down or lost in combat in the Pacific which would tend to account for the depressed numbers present at any given time.
The effect of the low replacement rate for SBD-3s is that the Allied Player is incapable of fighting the campaigns which were actually fought for lack of one of the principal aircraft which fought them.
But it was the IJN that showed up for "The Decisive Battle" (Midway & Aleutians) borrowing attack planes and Zeros from land based squadrons to man its carriers. The game theoretically allows the IJ Player to correct whatever deficiencies in IJ production which led to this situation but no such option exists for the Allied Player. It would therefore seem absolutely vital that the numbers allowed in Allied production be correct and that no assumptions about where the planes were deployed be allowed (Such as that the New Zealanders got shiny new airplanes for their No.25 Squadron instead of bullet riddled and broken down rejects from MAG-14 (already deployed to SOPAC and not until several months after deliveries of SBD-5s began).
So maybe there are assumptions implicit in the citing the "Locations of Navy Aircraft" reports. But none of the "Locations of Navy Aircraft" reports (every two weeks or so in 1942/43) support the contention that very many SBD-3/4s went to the Atlantic at any time (thus operational/combat losses were insignificant). On the other hand there were quite a few SBD-3/4 aircraft shot down or lost in combat in the Pacific which would tend to account for the depressed numbers present at any given time.
The effect of the low replacement rate for SBD-3s is that the Allied Player is incapable of fighting the campaigns which were actually fought for lack of one of the principal aircraft which fought them.
RE: SBD-3 production is wrong
ORIGINAL: JWE
Yeah? Same stuff as the last 5 threads and actually less than the data we got; but keep trying.ORIGINAL: Termite2
SBD-4 production by Douglas production numbers
So do you have a point that hasn't been made and dealt (repeatedly) with over the last six months?
Sorry, just noticed your post, won't post again
"After eight years as President I have only two regrets: that I have not shot Henry Clay or hanged John C. Calhoun."--1837
RE: SBD-3 production is wrong
The effect of the low replacement rate for SBD-3s is that the Allied Player is incapable of fighting the campaigns which were actually fought for lack of one of the principal aircraft which fought them.
I agree with this.
In my campaign (scen1, Human against Jap AI) Andy Mac's evil genius forced a couple of carrier battles on me early in 1942 (Jan to March). Most battles were of the skirmish type, and the heavy dive bomber losses were mostly due to inexperienced US fighter pilots unable to protect the divers.
Now, May 31, I have 69 US Navy Dive Bombers left (61 SBD-3 and 8 SBC-4) for 5 US carriers.
I should note that this is only because I have disbanded all groups flying DBs which were land based (excluding A-24).
There are 4 SBD-3 in the queue and the production rate is 21.
Then again, if done to slow down the Allies in the early phases of the conflict it seems to be working nicely.
I know, that all doesn't prove anything, but it still seems to be a bit tight.
Is it my fault? In part yes. I upgraded SBD-1 and SBD-2 without checking on the availability of the SBD-3 (never had a problem with that in earlier versions).
Frankly, I don't have a clear cut opinion on the whole thing.
IF the US Navy had a remarkable shortage of dive bombers in 1942 we probably would not have that discussion. On the other hand, game campaigns (either AI or PBEM) tend to quickly develop their own dynamics - that's where the fun comes from.
So while I'm not that happy with the current supplement of dive bombers I regard the whole situation as sort of game variance and increased excitement.
Just wish the devs will make it clear if and when they change the production rate, so I know when I start my next campaign [;)]
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Data base changes by Andy Mac October 16, 2012
Scen #1 Allied vs AI Level Hard Daily Turns
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Topo Map by chemkid
WitW / Torch
1.01.37 - 1.01.44 beta
1.7.11.26b
Data base changes by Andy Mac October 16, 2012
Scen #1 Allied vs AI Level Hard Daily Turns
Art Mods by TomLabel and Reg
Topo Map by chemkid
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castor troy
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RE: SBD-3 production is wrong
ORIGINAL: Termite2
XXX
Is there any reason to do three XXX posts in a row? Just curious
edit: actuall four of them [:D]
RE: SBD-3 production is wrong
Production data is MEANINGLESS , the only data that is relevant is what is in Theater we dont know if they had 300 sitting on the east coast etc. If you want to deal on production you need to account for every one. Here is a start there were at least 36 in the med ( ranger + 2 escort CVs which participated in Torch) and some of the units that apear later were in training on the east coast.
Have a look at the book SBD Dauntless Units of World War
in dec 1941 it list lexington & Enterprise as having a few SBD3s , mainly SBD2. Sara and Yorktown as SBD3. ( about 99 or so ) (Wasp & Ranger had SB2Us and Hornet SBC-4)
Have a look at the book SBD Dauntless Units of World War
in dec 1941 it list lexington & Enterprise as having a few SBD3s , mainly SBD2. Sara and Yorktown as SBD3. ( about 99 or so ) (Wasp & Ranger had SB2Us and Hornet SBC-4)
Underdog Fanboy
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treespider
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RE: SBD-3 production is wrong
OK because some people want to count all of their pennies...
SBD-3 & SBD-4 LOSSES
EAST COAST THROUGH JUNE 1943
TOTAL = 44
ADDITIONAL EAST COAST LOSSES July 43 - June 44
TOTAL = 17
WEST COAST LOSSES THROUGH JUNE 1943
TOTAL = 40
Now as some may recall the unanswered question for TimTOM was how many aircraft were assigned to ACTG and CASU units...which are not represented in the aforementioned LOCATION SUMMARIES...which some are espousing as the HOLY GRAIL of aircraft numbers
ACTG AND CASU SBD-3 and SBD-4 LOSSES
(Note some of these are duplicate entries of the EAST and WEST Coast Losses)
TOTAL=27
SO the question remains how many additional aircraft were assigned to CASU, ACTG and CQTU's units that were not lost...which are not represented in the aforementioned LOCATION SUMMARIES
Doing some data analysis stretching and fudging....I count 101 domestic "Ops" losses...the production numbers being bandied about are 1364...101/1364 = .074047 = 7.4% Op Loss rate ... 27 were lost while assigned to ACTG, CASU, CQTU units... 27 is 7.4% of 364. So theoretically as many as 360 were assigned to units not represented in the game. But lets assume these guys have a higher OP loss rate...since they are in training ---lets say 10%...so 270 total.
Smeulders pointed out 959 arrive in game...959 + 270 = 1229...1229 + 115 (for those assigned to Atlantic squadrons) = 1344. In my HUMBLE opinion....TimTom has it about right....and I agree with JWE.
SBD-3 & SBD-4 LOSSES
EAST COAST THROUGH JUNE 1943
TOTAL = 44
Code: Select all
410621 SBD-3 4556 VA
410806 VS-5 SBD-3 4551 WHITEHURST FIELD VA
411103 VS-5 SBD-3 4635 LITTLE CREEK VA
420507 VC-24 SBD-4 10754 AT SEA NY
420929 VGS-29 SBD-3 6560 ELIZABETH CITY NC
421125 FERRY SBD-4 6811 ATLANTA NRAB GA
421215 VGS-28 SBD-4 6681 FENTRESS FIELD VA
421229 VS-22 SBD-4 6881 CREEDS FIELD NAAS VA
430102 FERRY SBD-4 6906 NEW CANAAN CT
430112 VB-16 SBD-4 6925 PROVIDENCE RI
430204 VSB#3 SBD-3P 6608 DAYTONA BEACH NAS FL
430208 VS-9 SBD-4 10449 NORFOLK NAS VA
430210 VS-23 SBD-3 6878 PARRIS ISLAND MCAS NC
430212 UNKNOWN SBD-4 6858 PARRIS ISLAND MCAS NC
430222 VS-9 SBD-4 10455 NORFOLK COUNTY VA
430226 VS-16 SBD-4 6874 COCKEYSVILLE MD
430313 VB-23 SBD-4 10516 WAKEFIELD RI
430318 UNKNOWN SBD-4 10676 LITTLE CREEK VA
430325 VC-24 SBD-4 10528 BROOKLYN NAS NY
430329 VSB#3 SBD-4 10366 DAYTONA BEACH NAS FL
430329 VSB#3 SBD-4 10370 DAYTONA BEACH NAS FL
430330 VB-42 SBD-4 6826 SWAMPSCOTT MA
430408 VMSB-341 SBD-4 10675 HOG ISLAND NC
430413 CQTU/G SBD-4 6932 LAKE MICHIGAN IL
430414 CQTU/G SBD-4 6976 LAKE MICHIGAN IL
430422 VSB#3 SBD-4 10374 ORMOND BEACH FL
430424 OTU#1 SBD-4 10721 MILEBRANCH FL
430427 VSB#3 SBD-4 10493 DAYTONA BEACH NAS FL
430428 VB-23 SBD-4 6873 USS LEXINGTON MD
430502 OTU#1 SBD-4 10720 FOREMOST FIELD FL
430512 OTU#1 SBD-4 10706 CECIL FIELD FL
430514 OTU#1 SBD-4 10726 CUMMER FIELD FL
430519 VSB#3 SBD-4 10492 ORMOND BEACH FL
430520 VC-24 SBD-4 10563 WILDWOOD AT SEA NJ
430520 OTU#1 SBD-4 10703 LAWTEY FL
430523 VSB#3 SBD-4 10499 BANANA RIVER NAS FL
430525 OTU#1 SBD-4 10727 CECIL FIELD FL
430525 VC-24 SBD-4 10788 CHESEPEAKE BAY MD
430609 CQTU/G SBD-3 4541 HALFDAY FIELD IL
430610 VB-27 SBD-4 6548 CREEDS FIELD NAAS VA
430619 VSB#3 SBD-4 10363 DAYTONA BEACH NAS FL
430620 FERRY SBD-4 6729 MIDLAND AAF TX
430622 OTU#4 SBD-4 10709 CECIL FIELD FL
430623 VSB#3 SBD-3 6493 DAYTONA BEACH NAS FL
ADDITIONAL EAST COAST LOSSES July 43 - June 44
TOTAL = 17
Code: Select all
430701 OTU#1 SBD-3 12305 LEE FIELD FL
440501 OTU#4 SBD-4 10770 HERLONG FIELD FL
440511 OTU#4 SBD-4 6903 HERLONG FIELD FL
440511 VMB-612 SBD-4 9697 PETER FIELD NC
440512 OTU#4 SBD-3 28089 CECIL FIELD FL
440512 VD-2 SBD-3 10441 SUFFOLK AAF VA
440513 OTU#1 SBD-4 10711 BRANAN FIELD FL
440514 CQTU/G SBD-4 10577 DOUGLAS AIRPORT IL
440515 OTU#1 SBD-4 10573 BRANAN FIELD FL
440515 OTU#1 SBD-4 10799 HERLONG FIELD FL
440517 OTU#1 SBD-4 10705 BLACK CREEK FL
440517 OTU#4 SBD-4 10712 CECIL FIELD FL
440528 CQTU/G SBD-4 10694 USS SABLE IL
440606 OTU#4 SBD-4 6905 CECIL FIELD FL
440611 OTU#1 SBD-4 10425 BRANAN FIELD FL
440618 OTU#4 SBD-4 10571 BRANAN FIELD FL
440628 CQTU/G SBD-4 10603 DOUGLAS AIRPORT IL
WEST COAST LOSSES THROUGH JUNE 1943
TOTAL = 40
Code: Select all
411004 ACTG/P SBD-3 4621 SAN DIEGO BAY CA
411106 VB-3 SBD-3 4601 BORDER FIELD CA
411110 ACTG/P SBD-3 4653 BORDER FIELD CA
420319 VS-3 SBD-3 4583 SAN DIEGO NAS CA
420328 VS-8 SBD-3 3195 OTAY MESA NAS CA
420430 VS-3 SBD-3 3214 OTAY MESA NAS CA
420506 ACTG/P SBD-3 3252 JAMUL CA
420511 ACTG/P SBD-3 3260 OTAY MESA NAS CA
420515 ACTG/P SBD-3 3258 REAM FIELD CA
420520 ACTG/P SBD-3 3262 OTAY MESA NAS CA
420612 ACTG/P SBD-3 3272 SAN DIEGO NAS CA
420616 VB-3 SBD-3 3283 FORD ISLAND CA
420617 ACTG/P SBD-3 3271 REAM FIELD CA
420715 VMSB-142 SBD-3 3267 MIRAMAR NAS CA
420813 VMSB-141 SBD-3 3269 RANCHO SANTE FE CA
420815 VS-72 SBD-3 3362 PACIFIC COAST CA
420819 ACTG/P SBD-3 4605 KEARNEY FIELD CA
420825 CASU-5 SBD-3 3358 MIRAMAR NAS CA
420827 BMDAG-42 SBD-3 6613 SANTA BARBARA MCAS CA
421109 VMSB-243 SBD-4 6757 SANTA BARBARA MCAS CA
421120 VMSB-244 SBD-4 6734 SANTA BARBARA MCAS CA
421120 VS-12 SBD-4 6719 SAN DIEGO NAS CA
421120 VS-12 SBD-4 6739 SAN DIEGO NAS CA
421215 CASU-5 SBD-4 6797 MIRAMAR NAS CA
421226 ACTG/P SBD-3 4587 POINT LOMA CA
430111 CQTU/P SBD-4 6977 REAM FIELD CA
430112 VS-3 SBD-4 10329 EL CENTRO MCAS CA
430114 CQTU/P SBD-4 6932 USS LONG ISLAND CA
430201 VS-12 SBD-4 6916 POINT LOMA CA
430202 VMSB-235 SBD-4 10394 EL CENTRO MCAS CA
430210 VB-12 SBD-4P 6724 SAN DIEGO NAS CA
430213 VMSB-235 SBD-4 6664 EL CENTRO MCAS CA
430217 VMSB-232 SBD-3 6534 EL TORO MCAS CA
430313 FERRY SBD-4 6854 BAKERSFIELD CA
430313 FERRY SBD-4 6921 TEHACHAPI CA
430318 VMSB-236 SBD-4 10533 MOJAVE MCAS CA
430414 VC-34 SBD-4 10701 WHIDBEY ISLAND NAS WA
430522 VB-8 SBD-4 6942 ALEMEDA NAS CA
430611 VMSB-243 SBD-4 6712 PALMYRA NAS CA
430630 VMTB-134 SBD-3 6600 SANTA BARBARA MCAS CA
Now as some may recall the unanswered question for TimTOM was how many aircraft were assigned to ACTG and CASU units...which are not represented in the aforementioned LOCATION SUMMARIES...which some are espousing as the HOLY GRAIL of aircraft numbers
ACTG AND CASU SBD-3 and SBD-4 LOSSES
(Note some of these are duplicate entries of the EAST and WEST Coast Losses)
TOTAL=27
Code: Select all
411004 ACTG/P SBD-3 4621 SAN DIEGO BAY CA
411110 ACTG/P SBD-3 4653 BORDER FIELD CA
420506 ACTG/P SBD-3 3252 JAMUL CA
420511 ACTG/P SBD-3 3260 OTAY MESA NAS CA
420515 ACTG/P SBD-3 3258 REAM FIELD CA
420520 ACTG/P SBD-3 3262 OTAY MESA NAS CA
420612 ACTG/P SBD-3 3272 SAN DIEGO NAS CA
420617 ACTG/P SBD-3 3271 REAM FIELD CA
420819 ACTG/P SBD-3 4605 KEARNEY FIELD CA
420825 CASU-5 SBD-3 3358 MIRAMAR NAS CA
421125 FERRY SBD-4 6811 ATLANTA NRAB GA
421215 CASU-5 SBD-4 6797 MIRAMAR NAS CA
421226 ACTG/P SBD-3 4587 POINT LOMA CA
430102 FERRY SBD-4 6906 NEW CANAAN CT
430111 CQTU/P SBD-4 6977 REAM FIELD CA
430114 CQTU/P SBD-4 6932 USS LONG ISLAND CA
430313 FERRY SBD-4 6854 BAKERSFIELD CA
430313 FERRY SBD-4 6921 TEHACHAPI CA
430413 CQTU/G SBD-4 6932 LAKE MICHIGAN IL
430414 CQTU/G SBD-4 6976 LAKE MICHIGAN IL
430609 CQTU/G SBD-3 4541 HALFDAY FIELD IL
430620 FERRY SBD-4 6729 MIDLAND AAF TX
430630 CASU-2 SBD-4 6934 BARBAR'S POINT NAS HA
440514 CQTU/G SBD-4 10577 DOUGLAS AIRPORT IL
440528 CQTU/G SBD-4 10694 USS SABLE IL
440608 CASU-10 SBD-4 10411 ESPIRITU
440628 CQTU/G SBD-4 10603 DOUGLAS AIRPORT IL
SO the question remains how many additional aircraft were assigned to CASU, ACTG and CQTU's units that were not lost...which are not represented in the aforementioned LOCATION SUMMARIES
Doing some data analysis stretching and fudging....I count 101 domestic "Ops" losses...the production numbers being bandied about are 1364...101/1364 = .074047 = 7.4% Op Loss rate ... 27 were lost while assigned to ACTG, CASU, CQTU units... 27 is 7.4% of 364. So theoretically as many as 360 were assigned to units not represented in the game. But lets assume these guys have a higher OP loss rate...since they are in training ---lets say 10%...so 270 total.
Smeulders pointed out 959 arrive in game...959 + 270 = 1229...1229 + 115 (for those assigned to Atlantic squadrons) = 1344. In my HUMBLE opinion....TimTom has it about right....and I agree with JWE.
Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB
"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB
"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910
RE: SBD-3 production is wrong
ORIGINAL: castor troy
ORIGINAL: Termite2
XXX
Is there any reason to do three XXX posts in a row? Just curious
edit: actuall four of them [:D]
I was curious as to how many were actually produced; didn't have an opinion on on whether the game's rate was right or wrong. I listed the SBD production by using Douglas's production numbers at the various factories. Obviously, some people are touchy on the subject, I usually don't post[6 years and around 200 posts] but this time I must have been drunk to think that something I found interesting could be construed as an attack. I really liked treespider's posts on SBD losses and locations; those kind of posts I find interesting.
"After eight years as President I have only two regrets: that I have not shot Henry Clay or hanged John C. Calhoun."--1837
RE: SBD-3 production is wrong
I find it amusing that in what is supposed to be a historic simulation the IJ is swimming in airframes while the allies end up with carriers sitting in dock for years due to airframe shortages. The IJ has more high xp pilots then they can shake a stick at and a training program to keep their pilots elite all the way to wars end, while the allies struggle to field pilots with any experience at all, and have issues trying to keep up with training.
Sure the production rates on allied airframes may be historic, but having a mutual bloodbath carrier battle where both sides wipe out eachothers airgroups, with the IJ recovering in weeks while it takes the allies half a year or more doesn't seem very historic to me lol.
I'm having fun, the games great. I guess the IJ needs a variety of advantages to make for a more even battle.
Just not very historic however.
Sure the production rates on allied airframes may be historic, but having a mutual bloodbath carrier battle where both sides wipe out eachothers airgroups, with the IJ recovering in weeks while it takes the allies half a year or more doesn't seem very historic to me lol.
I'm having fun, the games great. I guess the IJ needs a variety of advantages to make for a more even battle.
Just not very historic however.
RE: SBD-3 production is wrong
Termite same here I personally agree with the compromises the dev team did after rveiewing their numbers in another thread what i was writing about was on another subject which is Data errors in the OOBs which are confirmed errors, and John massacred me he must have been having a bad day sailing around. I respect to much Johns knowledge and opinions to take it as a personal offense in the way he wrote his answer.When I do not agree with the Devs data I just Mod it but till know most of their data has been correct.