Suicidal Artillery Units

[Redmarkus5]

Here is an example of one of my Mortar Platoons pushing ahead of the Rifle Companies in the face of enemy fire. I have taken command at battalion level to order the attack, leaving the AI to run the sub-units. I've seen this several times now and even a few HQ units have gone into the attack after their sub-units were routed.

Has anybody else experienced this problem?

[Redmarkus5]

Note - this isn't the worst case I've seen, just the first I could capture as it happened...

[Panther Paul]

If you see a case again, could you get a save game, that when you rerun, shows the same behaviour.

Thanks.

[simovitch]

It doesn't look like the Battalion has even formed up yet.

From the look of the facing footprint, it's in a fair position to take on the enemy from the south, and you have ordered it to attack to the Northwest.

[Redmarkus5]

Well, regardless of how clumsy my tactics might be, the enemy is there, spotted and being engaged by my mortars, yet the platoon has opted to place itself ahead of the infantry.  You don't see a problem with that?  I have seen cases of the HQ and Mortar elements moving right up to the objective after the infantry have been routed.

I thought this was supposed to be a game where I issued the higher level orders and the AI developed a reasonably intelligent plan for carrying them out...?

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: simovitch

It doesn't look like the Battalion has even formed up yet.

From the look of the facing footprint, it's in a fair position to take on the enemy from the south, and you have ordered it to attack to the Northwest.

Here is the bigger picture. The incident in question occured on my left flank. An attempt to attack from the south would have meant having spotted enemy units in my direct rear.

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: Panther Paul

If you see a case again, could you get a save game, that when you rerun, shows the same behaviour.

Thanks.

Hi Paul. Here is the save game of the incident in question.

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: simovitch

It doesn't look like the Battalion has even formed up yet.

From the look of the facing footprint, it's in a fair position to take on the enemy from the south, and you have ordered it to attack to the Northwest.

Formed up and in the assault with no further user intervention. Mortars still forward...

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: Panther Paul

If you see a case again, could you get a save game, that when you rerun, shows the same behaviour.

Thanks.

Another example, same save game. This time the HQ unit is leading the advance with its Rifle Companies behind.

[Redmarkus5]

Zoomed in

[Redmarkus5]

Another HQ example.

1. HQ unit starts to move forward although 2/3 rifle companies are in retreat and enemy is still in place...

[Redmarkus5]

2. HQ continues forward

[Redmarkus5]

3. HQ moves forward until engaged by the enemy (direct fire) at which point it halts and returns fire

[jomni]

This has been happening since HTTR.  I just detach the unit and move them to the back and re-attach. But needs to be fixed anyway.

[Redmarkus5]

OK, but when an HQ unit is doing this I would have to take command of every sub-unit, move the HQ unit to the rear and then re-attach each sub-unit, right?  Otherwise all of the sub-units will move with the HQ unit.  Quite a painful work-around...  Definitely needs fixing IMO.

[Arjuna]

redmarkus4,

Thanks for taking ther time to post these images. Can you in future turn the grid on and change the Unit Info display to show the units current task. That would help me work things out a lot better. Thanks.

I haven't looked at your saved game yet. But I would like to point out a couple of things.

• Where the assault is long and the reserve loc is too far back for the mortars to provide effective fire support, the mortar unit may join the assault and drop off once it gets within effective range. So that may explain what you are seeing in some cases. But it may not.
• When you order an attack the assault group moves to the FUP while the reserve group ( HQ/moratars etc ) moves to the reserve loc. The reserveLoc is selected by the AI. It will try and get a position within effective range of any assigned indirect fire units. Now if the FUP has been set back even further than that, you may in fact see something like you have shown in your post #10 above.

So my advice to you is avoid placing FUPs too far back from the objective. Most WW2 mortar units have an eff range of around 2000 to 2500m. I would recommend you place your FUPs no more than 2000m from the objective. Try that and see if it makes a difference. Either way please get back to me and let me know it turned out. If there is a genuine issue we will address it.

[Redmarkus5]

Hi Arjuna,

Thanks for the reply.  I'll try to remember to change those settings before I upload any images in future.

In the first case shown (Mortar Platoon), the FUPs was about 1k from the objective.  I'm an old infantry officer myself and I always try to keep the distance to be travelled from FUP to objective reasonable.

In the second case (road march/advance to contact) this was just a 'Move' order, but the HQ unit stormed off up the road as shown, leaving its combat units behind.  Luckily it stopped before encountering the enemy and the rifle companies moved past it and engaged.

Am I the only person reporting such observations?  That would worry me! lol

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

If there is a genuine issue we will address it.

Hi Dave,

Here's another case. Apparently in response to a US probe (1) this German HQ left the defensive positions established for the Regt (2) and moved toward the passing enemy units (3). The remainder of the Regt did not receive orders to move from the Ai and remained in place - only the HQ moved and it left its own perimeter...

[Redmarkus5]

And here's the save file for that latest example

[Redmarkus5]

Corrections:

1. I had actually ordered that move manually - forgot I'd done that due to the orders delay which is set to max!
2. The sub-units now have orders to move out ahead of the HQ. 

But the fact remains that this HQ unit moved on ahead all on its lonesome, a repeated problem now.