I have rediscoved this great game after many years. As I play through version 3.1, I am faced with the same question from many years ago - What to do with the Brit carriers early in the game?
Previous experience with them is they is they can not defend themselves well, and do not carry sufficient offensive power to really be a threat to the Japanese. As an added bonus they disappear at in inopportune times!:mad:
As a result I tend to leave them parked in Ceylon with, with a reaction range of 15 in games against the AI. Am I being too cautious? Anyone have any better ideas.
Great job by everyone at Matrix for keeping this game alive.
- Paul
What to do with Brit carriers?
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Capt. Harlock
- Posts: 5379
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- Contact:
You are quite right that the British CV's can't seriously challenge the IJN. But there is one useful mission for them: to save the city of Rangoon. Park your carrier TF one hex away, so that the land-based and carrier-based fighters can cover each other. This should prevent all but really massive long-range bomber attacks from doing any serious damage. (Don't try this unless you have at least two CV's.) The British torpedo-bombers have enough bomb-load capacity to inflict serious disruption on the Japanese ground troops as long as there is no fighter opposition. And this should buy you the precious time you need to get the British reinforcements to the area.
Last point: you probably want to wait until June 1942 to counter-attack. Mika has discovered that there is a hidden "Monsoon season" affecting ground combat in the Burma theatre in March, April, and May
Last point: you probably want to wait until June 1942 to counter-attack. Mika has discovered that there is a hidden "Monsoon season" affecting ground combat in the Burma theatre in March, April, and May
Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?
--Victor Hugo
--Victor Hugo
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IntellWeenie
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2002 6:41 pm
Better still, park your CVs in Rangoon by setting the standoff to zero. This way, they won't run out of fuel as long as Rangoon has some available. To better support those LCUs, do the same thing with a bombardment TF. They will keep topped off on fuel and ammo as long as there's supply available in the base and bombard enemy LCUs attacking Rangoon every turn. They also won't be withdrawn as ships in a TF on a mission (not returning to base) will stay in theater.
By the way, this zero-standoff tactic also works good for supporting newly-captured bases that don't have an appreciable LBA presence. A good (historical, even) mission for the US CVEs.
By the way, this zero-standoff tactic also works good for supporting newly-captured bases that don't have an appreciable LBA presence. A good (historical, even) mission for the US CVEs.
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IntellWeenie
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2002 6:41 pm
One RN carrier, the HMS Victorious, served with the US pacific fleet in late 1942 thru early 1943 with the Saratoga, this was while the new Essex class carriers were working up and the Enterprise was getting much needed repairs done. There's no way to model this in PACWAR, unless one changes the Victorious to be a US ship then changes it back.
Still playing PacWar (but no so much anymore)...
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Jeremy Pritchard
- Posts: 575
- Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 8:00 am
- Location: Ontario Canada
You 'could' change it to have a different nationality, say Indian. There were certain ships that never left the pacific/Indian Ocean once they entered it, the Victorius was one of them. Once it arrived in the Pacific, after it served its tour of duty with the USN it then joined the Eastern, and then Pacific Fleet, ever leaving the region.
I have always detested the way that PacWar removes ships, randomly and due primarily to how much you use them instead of actual ship removal. Realistically, the RN kept up a certain number of ships, and only took ships away if a replacement vessel arrived.
I wish that there was a way to do this, but PacWar code limits ship/unit removal and reappearance.
However, I believe that there are some ships that either remain in the Pacific for the entire war, or remain for years on end to warrant changing their nationality to Indian so they won't disappear.
I have always detested the way that PacWar removes ships, randomly and due primarily to how much you use them instead of actual ship removal. Realistically, the RN kept up a certain number of ships, and only took ships away if a replacement vessel arrived.
I wish that there was a way to do this, but PacWar code limits ship/unit removal and reappearance.
However, I believe that there are some ships that either remain in the Pacific for the entire war, or remain for years on end to warrant changing their nationality to Indian so they won't disappear.
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Jeremy Pritchard
- Posts: 575
- Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 8:00 am
- Location: Ontario Canada
Until 1944 the British Eastern Fleet usually constisted of the following...
0-2 Carriers
5 Battleships
4 Heavy Cruisers
8 Light Cruisers
20 Destroyers
I believe that there were two Cruiser Squadrons (4th and 5th) that were based in the region, and they had around 8-12 ships in them. Whenever they lost a ship, a new one was always there to replace it, keeping the numbers the same. Heavy Cruisers were usually the Two Hawkins Class CA, who served primarily as convoy Escorts, and two Kent/Norfolk/London Cruisers (which were different ships, but kept strength to around 2 of them).
Usually the battleships were 4 of the R-Class, along with one QE-Class (First the Warspite, then Valiant, then QE).
Destroyers were a mix of odd vessels of all types of classes formed into makeshift flotillas.
In PacWar, you usually end up with a very large number of vessels, until you finally use them in battle, then you have a very small number.
The probem with the set up is, is that many ships served in the Indian Ocean for only a few months, usually on convoy duty and left when their convoys were ready to go home (Birmingham, Glasgow, etc..) but you can have them sit there for years. Most vessels had a 1-2.5 year stint in the Eastern Fleet. They only left when a replacement arrived. However, in PacWar, ships can leave when no suitable replacement will arrive for months/years, or you will have 6 Kent Class CA's sitting at Colombo because none left.
Arount 26 Capitol Ships (CL and above) came and went in the Indian Ocean (the remainder stayed there until the end of the war).
The Eastern Fleet was not powerful, but not because of the irregular comings and goings of its ships, but rather that it was only of a certain strength, but this strength was continual and guaranteed.
However, after 1943 most ships that were sent to the Eastern Fleet stayed there. When new ships appeared, old ships could be retired (the KGV-Class replaced the R-Class). The Fleet grew from 2 weak TF's to two Powerful TF's (one to become the Far East Fleet, and the other to become the Pacific Fleet).
I might have a look at the RN to see what is possible, so they don't become too powerful, or too weak due to the 'disappearing ship' method of PacWar.
0-2 Carriers
5 Battleships
4 Heavy Cruisers
8 Light Cruisers
20 Destroyers
I believe that there were two Cruiser Squadrons (4th and 5th) that were based in the region, and they had around 8-12 ships in them. Whenever they lost a ship, a new one was always there to replace it, keeping the numbers the same. Heavy Cruisers were usually the Two Hawkins Class CA, who served primarily as convoy Escorts, and two Kent/Norfolk/London Cruisers (which were different ships, but kept strength to around 2 of them).
Usually the battleships were 4 of the R-Class, along with one QE-Class (First the Warspite, then Valiant, then QE).
Destroyers were a mix of odd vessels of all types of classes formed into makeshift flotillas.
In PacWar, you usually end up with a very large number of vessels, until you finally use them in battle, then you have a very small number.
The probem with the set up is, is that many ships served in the Indian Ocean for only a few months, usually on convoy duty and left when their convoys were ready to go home (Birmingham, Glasgow, etc..) but you can have them sit there for years. Most vessels had a 1-2.5 year stint in the Eastern Fleet. They only left when a replacement arrived. However, in PacWar, ships can leave when no suitable replacement will arrive for months/years, or you will have 6 Kent Class CA's sitting at Colombo because none left.
Arount 26 Capitol Ships (CL and above) came and went in the Indian Ocean (the remainder stayed there until the end of the war).
The Eastern Fleet was not powerful, but not because of the irregular comings and goings of its ships, but rather that it was only of a certain strength, but this strength was continual and guaranteed.
However, after 1943 most ships that were sent to the Eastern Fleet stayed there. When new ships appeared, old ships could be retired (the KGV-Class replaced the R-Class). The Fleet grew from 2 weak TF's to two Powerful TF's (one to become the Far East Fleet, and the other to become the Pacific Fleet).
I might have a look at the RN to see what is possible, so they don't become too powerful, or too weak due to the 'disappearing ship' method of PacWar.
No problem with them becoming too powerful, since the real power hasn't built up until mid 1944. I guess the withdrawal factor is okay too, but it would be nice if somehow the Allied player had a little warning about which ships would be withdrawn when.
I use the RN CVs and BBs to mess with Rangoon. Usually it falls to the Japanese whetever I do, but repeated sorties will flatten the city, all the oil resources, demolish all the planes, cut down the supplies, and tax the readiness of the IJA units there. It makes movement past Imphal almost impossible for the IJA. Alternatively, it forces the IJN to deploy real forces to teh theater, which gives the USN room to play in the Pacific.
In no case do I let the EF hang out in Colombo. Last thing I want to do is let the IJ player think he can mount *any* invasion without proper escort. That way he uses capitol ships to back up his equipment. Whether I show up with the RN or not, he uses fuel.
I use the RN CVs and BBs to mess with Rangoon. Usually it falls to the Japanese whetever I do, but repeated sorties will flatten the city, all the oil resources, demolish all the planes, cut down the supplies, and tax the readiness of the IJA units there. It makes movement past Imphal almost impossible for the IJA. Alternatively, it forces the IJN to deploy real forces to teh theater, which gives the USN room to play in the Pacific.
In no case do I let the EF hang out in Colombo. Last thing I want to do is let the IJ player think he can mount *any* invasion without proper escort. That way he uses capitol ships to back up his equipment. Whether I show up with the RN or not, he uses fuel.
Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.
Didn't we have this conversation already?
Didn't we have this conversation already?
I came up with a way around the issue of ships being withdrawn from the Far Eastern Fleet. I amended the scenario files to convert all British ships to either Australian or New Zealander nationality. By spring 1944, the need had passed for large numbers of fast capital ships in the Atlantic so I allow myself the freedom of retaining them for service with the Far Eastern Fleet.
Even so, it would take months for the Commonwealth to build a large enough naval force to make serious headway against the Japanese perimeter. That's why I make a point of reinforcing the Far Eastern Fleet with a USN carrier task group comprised of Saratoga, Enterprise and Independence plus light cruisers and destroyers. This significantly boosts my striking power in the Indian Ocean while hardly slowing my Central Pacific campaign.
Overall, this reallocation of forces accelerates my advance since the Japanese tend to preoccupy themselves with blunting the Pacific Fleet while the Far Eastern Fleet conquers Sumatra and Malaya. By the time the AI moves to counter the threat, huge numbers of Commonwealth Beaufighters and Thunderbolts operating in tandem with the FAA have no difficulty in devastating the Japanese Fleet. From there, it's on to Taiwan and then Kyushu.
Even so, it would take months for the Commonwealth to build a large enough naval force to make serious headway against the Japanese perimeter. That's why I make a point of reinforcing the Far Eastern Fleet with a USN carrier task group comprised of Saratoga, Enterprise and Independence plus light cruisers and destroyers. This significantly boosts my striking power in the Indian Ocean while hardly slowing my Central Pacific campaign.
Overall, this reallocation of forces accelerates my advance since the Japanese tend to preoccupy themselves with blunting the Pacific Fleet while the Far Eastern Fleet conquers Sumatra and Malaya. By the time the AI moves to counter the threat, huge numbers of Commonwealth Beaufighters and Thunderbolts operating in tandem with the FAA have no difficulty in devastating the Japanese Fleet. From there, it's on to Taiwan and then Kyushu.
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Jeremy Pritchard
- Posts: 575
- Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 8:00 am
- Location: Ontario Canada
A better way at editing ships would be to give them INDIAN nationality, then you could even edit the Admirals to be Indian Admirals (so you could still use RN Admirals!). This clears up confusion between RN, RAN and RNZN vessels, as well as have your RN/RIN ships appear in the Indian Ocean instead of the South Pacific!
I am thinking about doing some major changes to the Royal Navy.
I can change the 'end time' of the RN withdrawls (currently set for January 1945, with January 1944 being more realistic, thanks to Mika). I can also change the chances that when a ship is selected for transfer that it does actually (currently set for 100%, but can get as low as 1%, and even lower, yet again thanks to Mika).
I am thinking of getting rid of ships that were in the Indian Ocean for only a few months. Many ships served primarily on convoy duty in the Indian Ocean, and were not a part of the main battle forces there. Plus, most of the convoys were in the Western side of India.
Most of the others served for around 1-3 years, but only a few served in the Indian Ocean, left, and then returned. Most were gone for good when they left.
I am actually in the middle of a 'test' that may result in a much more logical RN ship departure. It could fail horribly though!
I am thinking about doing some major changes to the Royal Navy.
I can change the 'end time' of the RN withdrawls (currently set for January 1945, with January 1944 being more realistic, thanks to Mika). I can also change the chances that when a ship is selected for transfer that it does actually (currently set for 100%, but can get as low as 1%, and even lower, yet again thanks to Mika).
I am thinking of getting rid of ships that were in the Indian Ocean for only a few months. Many ships served primarily on convoy duty in the Indian Ocean, and were not a part of the main battle forces there. Plus, most of the convoys were in the Western side of India.
Most of the others served for around 1-3 years, but only a few served in the Indian Ocean, left, and then returned. Most were gone for good when they left.
I am actually in the middle of a 'test' that may result in a much more logical RN ship departure. It could fail horribly though!
I hadn't thought about giving the ships Indian nationality, perhaps because the only action involving Indian ships in WW2 that I know of is the heroic clash between their Minesweeper Bengal and two Japanese AMCs. Not a proud day in the history of the IJN.
For the British, my scenario modifications involved the Far Eastern Fleet, with USN reinforments, growing to be equal in firepower to about 2 USN Task Groups by mid-1945 and then levelling off.
For the British, my scenario modifications involved the Far Eastern Fleet, with USN reinforments, growing to be equal in firepower to about 2 USN Task Groups by mid-1945 and then levelling off.