Comparisons to Space Empires and Galatic Civ?

[Rising-Sun]

ORIGINAL: taltamir

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

After reading some topics here, i was wondering how the micromanagements will be like. each planets have a zone to build your structures and onward. Didnt look much like 3D in space, all flat in 2D almost like MoO2.

Wish there more infos on this game, but doesnt look like worth playing. beside cant find a demo anyway.

In DW Most planets should be structureless... SOME planets get a spaceport, and the most important ones can get a few defensive platforms to go along with it...
In GalCiv2 each planet has "slots"... so an average thermoformed planet has 10 slots so you can build 10 buildings... I really don't like that system as its prone to micromanagement and it is kinda stupid.

I agreed with that, take time to change the planet structure and depend on what kinda planet it is as well how adapt the owner can use it. And forgot this is RTS Space game, so micromanagement will be rough heh, guess can build some things but not too complex unless you pause it alot. Esp if you are playing against AI, vs players would be annoying "come on already, let go"! lol.

[the1sean]

ORIGINAL: taltamir

SE4 is better than 5... even now 5 is way too incomplete and problematic. SE5 significantly lacks polish compared to previous versions.

The classic Wizard of Oz line "if I only had a brain" pops into my mind when I think of SE5. SE4 has better AI than SE5. For me this game is so awesome because Distant Worlds includes some of the very best parts of all of the best 4x's that I have ever played:

Victoria deep economic model

Elite living universe and trade

Paradox (Hearts of Iron, Europa Universalis, etc) "pausable real-time" that keeps combat fluid and removes the "end turn" button, but keeps the "turnbased" gameplay feel

Space Empires ship design, very cool

Master of Orion gameplay pacing, and combat "feel", space monsters, and events

Galactic Civilizations diplomacy

Civilization in-game encyclopedia, and resource system.

Imperium Galactica 2 map exploration unlocks galactic history, oh yeah, and well fleshed-out pirates [:D]

DW's "automanage or suggestive AI" stands alone as a great achievement in gaming history, because it actually works pretty dang well, and is easily modified to fit player preference.

DW's map is big, the likes of which I have never seen before (maybe like lost empires? never played that one myself)




The only really big features that I wish Distant Worlds included from some other space/strategy titles are:

Master of Orion separate and distinct ship art for every single race. Seriously, this would round out DW nicely. However, with the release of a little more mod support the community will probably fix this on its own.

Galactic Civilization custom race design (personal empire and enemy empire), and game setup options (like no tech brokering, hint hint)

Sword of the Stars style variable tech-tree, so no two games are alike, and not all races have the same tech tree. Also detailed tech salvaging, and Language/Culture techs, very cool stuff.

Imperium Galactica 2 ship and arms market, where any players could sell off old (or new) military equipment to an arms market that any faction could buy from. A really cool feature that I havent seen in any other major games (except for arguably Victoria, kinda). Also, ship selling/purchasing in diplomacy. Proxy wars [:'(]

Hearts of Iron in-depth peace negotiation options, and options to return planets to control of allies if originally held by them. Also a very cool popup customization system.

Space Empires 4 has expansive options for setting up alliances and treaties of all sorts.

Armada 2526 has a really cool wormhole system (even better than the MoO one) that adds a lot to the map. Also, Armada has nearly unlimited max players. I have a powerful PC, I want more aliens to kill! Also, Armada has a really neat victory point system where every race gets VPs for totally different things. The VP system isnt perfect, but it is a very innovative idea.


Well, thats my rant for today. I think that Distant Worlds is a supremely awesome game, and I hope that it continues to garner the attention (and profits) that it deserves. I think that my "missing features" could be implemented in an expansion or two for Distant Worlds, and would really make this game shine. However, kudos to Erik; he has created a game that keeps me up for HOURS beyond when I should be awake, and makes me giddy with all the things that I can do, and the cool and different experiences that I get from each game.

Thanks, Erik, I am having a lot of fun.

[Erik Rutins]

Thanks the1sean,

Much appreciated. For the record though, while Elliot doesn't post as much as I do, he should definitely get the lion's share of the credit for DW.

On a separate note, we've got the 1.0.5 beta in internal testing and I have to say after a few days of kicking the tires it's looking pretty good. Still more things to finish up and test before public beta, but I think you will be pretty happy with it.

Regards,

- Erik

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: the1sean

The only really big features that I wish Distant Worlds included from some other space/strategy titles are:

Master of Orion separate and distinct ship art for every single race. Seriously, this would round out DW nicely. However, with the release of a little more mod support the community will probably fix this on its own.

Galactic Civilization custom race design (personal empire and enemy empire), and game setup options (like no tech brokering, hint hint)

This would be a real nice thing to have. Now with DW editor you can do some adjusting, such as making my empire of slukens a peace loving democracy while the AI slukens are bloodthirsty despots, but it is a bit limited. More options would be a plus here.

Sword of the Stars style variable tech-tree, so no two games are alike, and not all races have the same tech tree. Also detailed tech salvaging, and Language/Culture techs, very cool stuff.

This would also be a nice to have thing, along with an aforementioned major/minor tech advancement system.

Imperium Galactica 2 ship and arms market, where any players could sell off old (or new) military equipment to an arms market that any faction could buy from. A really cool feature that I havent seen in any other major games (except for arguably Victoria, kinda). Also, ship selling/purchasing in diplomacy. Proxy wars [:'(]

Probably the single best thing about Imperium Galactica II was the galactic arms trade system. I could always buy a fleet much faster than I could build it, particularly for 'filler' ships such as fighters.

IGII also had a much better diplomacy system than DW. Right now our diplomacy is rather limited to tech trades and buy-offs. If I'm broke I'd like to send the classic 'suck-up' message, such as 'We strive to improve relations with your great empire...' etc.

Hearts of Iron in-depth peace negotiation options, and options to return planets to control of allies if originally held by them. Also a very cool popup customization system.

Space Empires 4 has expansive options for setting up alliances and treaties of all sorts.

Armada 2526 has a really cool wormhole system (even better than the MoO one) that adds a lot to the map. Also, Armada has nearly unlimited max players. I have a powerful PC, I want more aliens to kill! Also, Armada has a really neat victory point system where every race gets VPs for totally different things. The VP system isnt perfect, but it is a very innovative idea.

Armada is not a bad game. One thing I'd love to take from that one and put into DW is the trade mission diplomacy option and 'building' (though in DW it would be a trade starbase). Not only do you make money trading, but you have a perfect set of eyes and ears right over another empires planets and get to watch as they come and go... [;)]

Well, thats my rant for today. I think that Distant Worlds is a supremely awesome game, and I hope that it continues to garner the attention (and profits) that it deserves. I think that my "missing features" could be implemented in an expansion or two for Distant Worlds, and would really make this game shine. However, kudos to Erik; he has created a game that keeps me up for HOURS beyond when I should be awake, and makes me giddy with all the things that I can do, and the cool and different experiences that I get from each game.

Thanks, Erik, I am having a lot of fun.

Chopped this down a bit for size issues... Multiple quote threads can get rather long and tedious to read. [:)]

[the1sean]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Thanks the1sean,

Much appreciated. For the record though, while Elliot doesn't post as much as I do, he should definitely get the lion's share of the credit for DW.

Well then, for the record many thanks and thumbs up to Elliot as well! [&o]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
On a separate note, we've got the 1.0.5 beta in internal testing and I have to say after a few days of kicking the tires it's looking pretty good. Still more things to finish up and test before public beta, but I think you will be pretty happy with it.

Yeah, I am pretty stoked, I just need to get closer to a "finished" point in my current sandbox game, because I know that as soon as the new patch comes out I am going to install it and start a completely new game.

[the1sean]

ORIGINAL: Shark7
This would be a real nice thing to have. Now with DW editor you can do some adjusting, such as making my empire of slukens a peace loving democracy while the AI slukens are bloodthirsty despots, but it is a bit limited. More options would be a plus here.

See, and the main thing for me is, not to belittle the awesome tool that modders have created, but it is important to have these tools and game setting options available from in-game menus. Why? Because the average user will never visit this forum, download, and then mod their own files. Its hard enough to get them to install simple mods.

ORIGINAL: Shark7
Probably the single best thing about Imperium Galactica II was the galactic arms trade system. I could always buy a fleet much faster than I could build it, particularly for 'filler' ships such as fighters.

Glad to hear that someone agrees with me here, it was the coolest feature! Imagine if you could list which empires could purchase your items? Lots of cool possibilities. I also used it to quickly stock up on the more "disposable" assets like fighters and ground combat vehicles.

[jam3]

I would say one of the biggest differences you'll notice in this game compared to other 4x's is the extremly bare tech tree. All the tech is basically for building ships, there's no tech to improve economy, dipolamcy, espionage, or other things. Probably the single biggest weakness of the game is the tech tree.

[WoodMan]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Thanks the1sean,

Much appreciated. For the record though, while Elliot doesn't post as much as I do, he should definitely get the lion's share of the credit for DW.

On a separate note, we've got the 1.0.5 beta in internal testing and I have to say after a few days of kicking the tires it's looking pretty good. Still more things to finish up and test before public beta, but I think you will be pretty happy with it.

Regards,

- Erik

You deserve credit for being probably the most helpful and un-invisible community relations guy on a forum though [:D] I mean seriously... for the past two years or so almost every gaming forum I go to ends up with 90% of the posts being complaints about the developer/publishers not giving any patches, support, news or posting AT ALL in the forums.

[Jorune2112]

ORIGINAL: jam3

I would say one of the biggest differences you'll notice in this game compared to other 4x's is the extremly bare tech tree. All the tech is basically for building ships, there's no tech to improve economy, dipolamcy, espionage, or other things. Probably the single biggest weakness of the game is the tech tree.

I was gonna see what the new patch would do before buying the game, but this alone has put the brakes on.

I'm not looking for a 'new' 4x space game, I've still got MOO2 and enjoy it. I am looking for a more 'perfect' 4x space game. I love the living world aspect. What turns me off of the Gal Civ series is how dry it comes off. It lacks personality.

But I want a game where I can pursue peaceful means of winning the game, which would include researching peaceful techs. As far as 'wargames' in space, I've got Sins of a Solar Empire and Sword of the Stars to do that.

So whether its official or modded in, I must admit I'll wait for a more robust tech tree and the ability to build buildings on planets.

And my thoughts on those implementations? I like in MOO where you get to pick 1 of 4 (or is it 5) techs in a group and the rest go away. Now you have to trade to get them. Or like in Sots, where its slightly randomize as to what you get.

I also like how Gal Civ did buildings. You are limited to picking a small handful of buildings for your planet. I like the idea of specialized planets giving you empire bonus'.

Jorune

[WoodMan]

Oh god no please don't bring back the horrible buildings on planets thing from Gal Civ 2[>:]  You spend half your time in Gal Civ 2 in the planet screen doing the same thing over and over and over, especially when your Empire is big, and then there is the AI, which didn't know how to use the buildings properly.  If there is to be some kind of planet upgrading thing going on I would much prefer a system like Soase, but preferably a bit slower, more in the pace of Distant Worlds not the get all upgrades in 5 mins like in Soase, and preferably some kind of limit to do with population so you can't fully upgrade low population planets. 

As for the tech tree thing, to be honest I hadn't even noticed until it came up here, so it's not that big of a loss.  I like the way that DW puts a cap on research speed too so one Empire doesn't get massively in front of the others like in some games (i can remember killing medieval knights with tanks in some games [:D])

[Jorune2112]

Gal Civ 2 actually did it better than the rest, I felt. You only had a limited amount of spots to put buildings. Not like Moo2 or any of the Civ games where you could buy all the buildings for each city.

But I could see with the size of your empire that it could get a bit absurd. But the ability to at least research and designate certain planets as, say, a mining planet, a shipyard building planet, a science planet, etc. Something that gives you a bonus to your empire from that planet and gives the planet some personality would be great. I know certain planets have goods on them that makes you want that planet, but I would like the opportunity to give my planets 'specialized' roles in my empire.

But I want something to do other than 'wage war'. Here's an example. In Civ 4, I chose the French (bonus to culture). I than researched tech upgrades that allowed me to get culture bonus' and built buildings in those cities to do the same. My neighbor had enough of me 'taking' his cities by cultural means (my culture border expands and any city in my border comes under my control). He waged a war I couldn't win. I got to the point that on the very next turn, he was going to take my capital city, Paris. Than the game ended and I saw the victory screen. It turned out that 3 of my cities had reached meg cultural status (I forget the correct terminology), and I won.

In gal Civ 2 I had a game where, as the humans (diplomatic bonus), I achieved a diplomatic victory by making alliances with I think it was three quarters of the galaxy, despite on the verge of losing a war with some enemy.

I just want different ways to win besides galactic domination.

And does Distant Worlds even have an espionage system?
jorune

[WoodMan]

DW is not all about war, it's a real shame they don't have a demo so you could see for yourself.  The victory conditions are quite simple, there is one where you have to own a certain % of the territory in the galaxy, one where your private sector has to constitute a certain % of the galaxy total and one where you have to control a certain % of the population.  You get to choose the % for each of those and which conditions you want enabled.  Or you can play with a time limit when at time-up the greatest Empire in Strategic Value wins (but I don't know what that means). [:D]  I play in Sandbox mode myself, no victory conditions a never-ending game.

The espionage system is pretty stadard to this kind of game, you can steal maps, incite rebellion or revolution, sabotage construction, steal technology, put in a spy for the long term to see their Empire.  Also you can secretly pay Pirates to attack your enemies but if they find out your Empires reputation takes a hit.

I know it sounds like I'm defending the game a lot, but I really think it deserves a good reputation.  From a technical point of view its not the best I've played, but it has massive scale and is very relaxing which is the kind of game I like.  It's real-time but this is more like Gal Civ (in fact slower than Gal-Civ) than it is Soase.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

DW is not all about war, it's a real shame they don't have a demo so you could see for yourself.  The victory conditions are quite simple, there is one where you have to own a certain % of the territory in the galaxy, one where your private sector has to constitute a certain % of the galaxy total and one where you have to control a certain % of the population.  You get to choose the % for each of those and which conditions you want enabled.  Or you can play with a time limit when at time-up the greatest Empire in Strategic Value wins (but I don't know what that means). [:D]  I play in Sandbox mode myself, no victory conditions a never-ending game.

The espionage system is pretty stadard to this kind of game, you can steal maps, incite rebellion or revolution, sabotage construction, steal technology, put in a spy for the long term to see their Empire.  Also you can secretly pay Pirates to attack your enemies but if they find out your Empires reputation takes a hit.

I know it sounds like I'm defending the game a lot, but I really think it deserves a good reputation.  From a technical point of view its not the best I've played, but it has massive scale and is very relaxing which is the kind of game I like.  It's real-time but this is more like Gal Civ (in fact slower than Gal-Civ) than it is Soase.

Sandbox mode rocks. There is no set victory, no time limit, you play to suit yourself and you win when you decide you win. In sandbox mode you could play a never ending game doing nothing but diplomacy and espionage or fighting pirates...granted, I tend to play to a point where I can be the evil, nasty go conquer the entire galaxy tin-pot despot and consider the game won when I have made every inhabitable planet in the galaxy part of my evil empire, but that is the beauty of sandbox mode, I can do just that. [:)]

[WoodMan]

lol Shark, you play the dead opposite way to me, I guess that shows the game has some versatility.

I try to keep my Empires reputation as high as possible, I don't declare war on anyone unless I have been provoked into doing so, I don't invade independent colonies that won't willingly join my Empire through colonization, I don't let ships die needlessly, especially civilian ships, and especially Colony ships, I lost one the other evening and felt that a major failure of my government, to let 10 million innocent people die [:D] Oh and those Pirates, I'll never form an Alliance with that dispicable bunch, although I may occasionally pay them protection.

[the1sean]

ORIGINAL: Jorune2112

But I want something to do other than 'wage war'...

I just want different ways to win besides galactic domination.

And does Distant Worlds even have an espionage system?

I find the great economic detail in DW very refreshing, and controlling vital resources is very important. As has been stated there are 3 possible victory conditions, and you can customize them however you want. The espionage system is good; it doesnt require tons of micro management to be effective, and is solid in that it influences overall balance of power but isnt so powerful that it undermines the importance of other skills like economics, politics, and war.

[taltamir]

I hate all the BS "multiple victory conditions" thing...

Victory is achieved when you crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.

"ooh, I achieved "peaceful" victory... flowers and dope for everyone" just doesn't cut it with me...

Anyways... DW does allow multiple victory conditions (I turn all of them off, for me victory is when I conquer the last enemy planet). And DW does have an espionage system (although it needs some work)

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

lol Shark, you play the dead opposite way to me, I guess that shows the game has some versatility.

I try to keep my Empires reputation as high as possible, I don't declare war on anyone unless I have been provoked into doing so, I don't invade independent colonies that won't willingly join my Empire through colonization, I don't let ships die needlessly, especially civilian ships, and especially Colony ships, I lost one the other evening and felt that a major failure of my government, to let 10 million innocent people die [:D] Oh and those Pirates, I'll never form an Alliance with that dispicable bunch, although I may occasionally pay them protection.

Hehe, I'm nasty, but my rep is usually satisfactory. I trick the other empires into declaring war on me so they take the reputation hit, not me. [;)] So not only am I nasty and evil, I make effective use of subterfuge.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: taltamir

I hate all the BS "multiple victory conditions" thing...

Victory is achieved when you crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.

"ooh, I achieved "peaceful" victory... flowers and dope for everyone" just doesn't cut it with me...

Anyways... DW does allow multiple victory conditions (I turn all of them off, for me victory is when I conquer the last enemy planet). And DW does have an espionage system (although it needs some work)

Not into the whole 'flower power' hippie movement are we? [:D]

[taltamir]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

ORIGINAL: taltamir

I hate all the BS "multiple victory conditions" thing...

Victory is achieved when you crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.

"ooh, I achieved "peaceful" victory... flowers and dope for everyone" just doesn't cut it with me...

Anyways... DW does allow multiple victory conditions (I turn all of them off, for me victory is when I conquer the last enemy planet). And DW does have an espionage system (although it needs some work)

Not into the whole 'flower power' hippie movement are we? [:D]

Whoa man! How did you know? You must be psychic or something! ;p

[jam3]

Galciv 2 was a great game but its main problem was its broken econ system where you were balancing taxes, research, and building maintenance all with a slider system that left you smacking your head trying to figure out what was going on. All galciv2 needed was a straight forward civ type economy and would have made it 10x a better game.

DW is a great game in alot of respects, especially in how it scales and models solar systems and the map. Combat and ship design are passable but again the tech tree could just have easily been called "engineering" because is almost completly applied science directly leading to ship components. Even within the context of the game they could have added bonuses to diplomacy, espionage, and economy(lower corruption maybe) through tech and to me thats one of the real misses on the design of the game in its current state. Adding more planetary focus, namely buildings, would be interesting.