The AI is smarter than me...

Command Ops: Battles From The Bulge takes the highly acclaimed Airborne Assault engine back to the West Front for the crucial engagements during the Ardennes Offensive. Test your command skills in the fiery crucible of Airborne Assault’s “pausable continuous time” uber-realistic game engine. It's up to you to develop the strategy, issue the orders, set the pace, and try to win the laurels of victory in the cold, shadowy Ardennes.
Command Ops: Highway to the Reich brings us to the setting of one of the most epic and controversial battles of World War II: Operation Market-Garden, covering every major engagement along Hell’s Highway, from the surprise capture of Joe’s Bridge by the Irish Guards a week before the offensive to the final battles on “The Island” south of Arnhem.

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henri51
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The AI is smarter than me...

Post by henri51 »

I played the "Peiper crosses the Meuse" scenario without any more knowledge than the briefing, and maybeI will post an AAR later. When the first reinforcements came in (KG Peiper, I pretty much commanded the battalions myself, and in particular, I order the Tiger Battalion to attack as soon as possible across the bridge that the German paratroopers were holding against a US infntry division. After the game,I decided to try an alternate approach where I would give one attack order to the Peiper HQ to see how he would carry out the attack.


Image

Peiper divided the KG into two main groups, sending the infantry up the road in the usual way when moving in column, but sent the two Panther tank and PzIV tank battalions (each company with 15 tanks) across the river to the West of the bridge, from where they supported the defence of the bridge and the attack developing against the Americans.Some infantry was sent into the town, but most stayed back out of range along with the Tiger battalion with 3 companies of 7 Tiger IIs.

Now in my aforementioned game, I had rashly sent the Tigers with attack orders as son as they had appeared, worried about losing the bridge and wanting to "not waste any time" as recommended by the briefing. As a result I lost two of the Tiger companies and the third was severely mauled.[&:]This was probably mostly due to the fact that the paratroopers were too tired to support the Tigers, who were therefore fighting in urban terrain without infantry support, who apparently arrived too late to prevent the losses.[:-]

In both games I was still holding The bridge as night fell, Peiper (the AI) ordered his Panthers and PZIVs to move into the town during the night, so that they would be ready to continue the attack on the morning of Day 2.The Tigers were just getting their orders and the reserves were moving up when I stopped.

There was a lot of other action going on, which is not relevant to this discussion, but I thought the AI was pretty smart in this case - or at least it was smarter than I was...[:o]

Henri
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wodin
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RE: The AI is smarter than me...

Post by wodin »

The AI is smarter than me aswell so don't worry...got hammered in Manhay Crossing...I was to damn slow and paid for it....thought the Amis where taken by suprise...before I know it my little pixeltruppen are fighting for the electronic lives...
daft
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RE: The AI is smarter than me...

Post by daft »

I know what you mean. I've written so many condolence letters since buying this game it's not even funny. I have found myself to be too cautious when I should be bold, and too bold when I should be cautious. I still struggle with finding the right balance despite having spent years learning this engine and the AI behaviour. Maybe someday I'll be a decent commander of my digital fighting men.
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wodin
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RE: The AI is smarter than me...

Post by wodin »

I'm going to try Manhay again and rush the crossroads and get my blocking positions in place ASAP...see what happnes...if I can hold them on those two roads leading through the forest I may be OK...thats the beauty of this game...every scenario gets played again and again...I haven't played a game like that before...
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sterckxe
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RE: The AI is smarter than me...

Post by sterckxe »

ORIGINAL: wodin
I'm going to try Manhay again and rush the crossroads and get my blocking positions in place ASAP...see what happnes...if I can hold them on those two roads leading through the forest I may be OK...thats the beauty of this game...every scenario gets played again and again...I haven't played a game like that before...

Rushing Manhay and Grandmenil works ... sort off ... but to obtain even a minor victory you need to exit units to the West. I did it by sending off a unit at night over the small trail through the woods with "avoid combat" orders, but even then it was no pick-nick.

The beauty of this scenario is that it's just as tough playing as the US side to get a decent victory - been banging my head on the keyboard over this one for some time [;)]

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx


DanOppenheim
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RE: The AI is smarter than me...

Post by DanOppenheim »

My current approach to Manhay is to be as bold as possible. I send a Bn of the 3 PG as fast as possible to the obective on the road leading the exit point, with a tank Co and flak guns in support. I then send my Panthers up past the crossroads to the northern most objective, which not only disrupts their reinforcements but also gives a much better view into the valley. One of the other two Bns of the 3 PG is sent into Manhay, while the other forms a defensive line in the woods to the south, to prevent a breakthrough behind my lines from reinforcements coming from the north. Remaining support units (eng + AT) forma simple defensive line at the southern entry into the rear of my lines. I've not really got a solid idea of what to do with 2 Pz when they turn up, so I end up not using them as best I could.

I'm beginning to think that holding Manhay or Grandmenil with any sort of strong force is a mug's game, at least beyond the first part of the day, because as soon as they get their artillery into place it becomes a deathtrap and the already exhausted troops can do little but get pounded into oblivion. I'm beginning to think that getting as far up the various roads leading into the valley is going to be key. Not only is there better cover, but it'll give me more room to manoeuvre behind my MLRs.

edit: But, yeah, I've played it about ten times now and I've consistently been astonished and annoyed at the AIs sneaky behaviour. :D
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sterckxe
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RE: The AI is smarter than me...

Post by sterckxe »

ORIGINAL: DanO
edit: But, yeah, I've played it about ten times now and I've consistently been astonished and annoyed at the AIs sneaky behaviour. :D

I hear you, I'm <this> close to complain about it and demand the AI is made more stupid in a patch [;)]

Good point on Manhay and Grandmenil being death-traps - you're right - I never looked at it that way ... I feel some new tactics coming up.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx
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wodin
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RE: The AI is smarter than me...

Post by wodin »

I managed a draw with the Germans today far more casualties though both sides...might have got a win but they had the Exit well covered and wouldn't let my pixeltruppen through....aaarrrggghh....

I played as the Americans and got a minor victory....alot easier...I was just ahead all the way through....

Judging by the obiectives on each side...it might be best as the Germans to run like mad at the begining and get your exit troops done and dusted first....then try and keep as many othe Obj's with he rest of your troops...think this might get you a minor victory....just make sure the American exit obj is covered..

Great scenario
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henri51
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RE: The AI is smarter than me...

Post by henri51 »

ORIGINAL: wodin

I managed a draw with the Germans today far more casualties though both sides...might have got a win but they had the Exit well covered and wouldn't let my pixeltruppen through....aaarrrggghh....

WAs this Manhay or Peiper? If the latter, none of my units made it out either.

Henri
RayWolfe
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RE: The AI is smarter than me...

Post by RayWolfe »

ORIGINAL: sterckxe
I feel some new tactics coming up.
You haven't used a new tactic since 1998 ......... [:'(]

Ask Gifty <lovely man> he will teach you the Klingon Wedge technique.



Ray
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RE: The AI is smarter than me...

Post by FredSanford3 »

ORIGINAL: wodin

pixeltruppen

I like it! +1
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wodin
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RE: The AI is smarter than me...

Post by wodin »

ORIGINAL: henri51
ORIGINAL: wodin

I managed a draw with the Germans today far more casualties though both sides...might have got a win but they had the Exit well covered and wouldn't let my pixeltruppen through....aaarrrggghh....

WAs this Manhay or Peiper? If the latter, none of my units made it out either.

Henri

It was Manhay...the first time I did get a few out but the next time I played the AI had the exit well defended with three big Arty units...

I think going flat out through the woods to the exit first and get your boys out straight away is prob best to get them 17 points....after that try you best to gain points on OBJ's...

I actually held Manhay Crossroads the whole game nearly the last time I played....but like I said because they had blocked the exit I couldn't get any units out...if I had I'd have got a minor victory...
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RE: The AI is smarter than me...

Post by sterckxe »

ORIGINAL: RayWolfe
ORIGINAL: sterckxe
I feel some new tactics coming up.
You haven't used a new tactic since 1998 ......... [:'(]

Yup, but somehow I'm starting to get the feeling that Kamikaze attacks aren't always the best approach, totally weird as that may sound.
ORIGINAL: RayWolfe
Ask Gifty <lovely man> he will teach you the Klingon Wedge technique.

For those unfamiliar with it - Giftzwerg's HTTR AAR :

Got into a pretty wild little game the other night. In the "Deelen" scenario, my friend Bob took the Germans, and me the English, setting additional reinforcements for the Germans.

So. Down come my parachutes and gliders, and I march cheerfully into Arnhem. Not a German in sight. Nowhere. Nothing but British boots clattering on the cobblestones, and Dutch girls blowing kisses.

The 52nd Division lands. Still no contact. I'm holding all the relevant objectives, Arnhem, bridges, objectives ... and sending out patrols to pretty fair distances, but still no Germans. Oh, I glimpse a few here and there, exchange a little long-range fire with my scouts, but nothing. The only Germans I've really had any contact with are the few immobile garrison-guys stuck in town and quickly wiped out. So I hunker down in a big pocket around all the objectives, dig in deep, and wait for Bob to send some attacks my way.

Ha-ha. Who's better than me? Toppa the world, Ma!

Except. Days go by. I'm thinking, "What the **** is he up to? Am I going to see, like, a huge wooden horse trundling up to my frontlines?"

On Day 5 (!), as I'm swilling a martini (literally) and knitting a banner to welcome XXX Corps (figuratively) ... my picket line picks up some Germans directly north of Arnhem.

<blinks> More than a few Germans, actually.

<frowning> Really a goodly number of them.

<nervous laughter> In fact, rather an alarming gaggle of Germans.

<panicky> Can that be two whole divisions of 'em?

[I'm imagining a scene were a runner dashes up to General Urquart and Urquart asks, "Germans, you say? How many of them?" and the messenger blurts: "Looks like *all of them*, sir!"]

As I try to arrange The Mother Of All Hasty Redeployments, this huge wedge of Germans - Bob had actually gathered up every single last German unit that could walk, roll, or crawl - crashes into the two brigades of the 52nd holding the northern flank. The little brown "speed bumps" held briefly ... then disappeared under a roiling ball of explosion
graphics and black/grey squares.

Both systems are chugging like crazy and the minute counter is updating sloooooowly; I'm imagining the casualty meter spinning like an odometer gone mad. There had to be ... I dunno ... 20,000 Germans packed into a space of two kilometers square, running for the Rhine.

Well, anyhow, so much for the entire 52nd Lowland Division; they're a grease spot with a hobnailed bootprint on it. <skirling of bagpipes>

The other four brigades (counting the intrepid glider pilots...) have now gotten themselves sorted out - turned around, actually, since the headlong German advance bounces off the Lower Rhine and is now firmly fixed between two neat red rows - and are starting to pound the Germans mercilessly. My "brilliant" contribution to the affair is to give them all "attack" tasks inwards, onto the German mass which is now pretty much surrounded ... but still blazing away with everything they've got.

Whoa, Mohammed.

At this point, the two PCs have gone bananas, what with all the little "blings" and pages of scrolling text as the game systems record units routing, units surrendering, and units disappearing forever. My laptop's fan is making a sort of strained groaning sound, and heavy graphics load has got the hot air coming out feeling like the defroster on an F450 truck up full.

[Bob goes, "Uh, we outta save this off, dude, in case one ... or both ... of your PCs goes tits-up on us..."]

There are so many Germans packed into a tiny little space next to the bridge, and so many Paras surrounding them, that the graphic on the screen looks like a child's drawing of a demented, twitching 8-ball soaked in blood.

It's like, 10:00 AM. Only.

There's really no semblance of command (where are we gonna go?), just hundreds of units set at "Fastest/Quickest/Max/Rapid/Max" blasting the ****-all out of each other. Neither side dares to try and turn away, since that would invite complete disaster...

...so, uh, it pretty much ends up in "complete disaster" for both sides. As dusk falls, the smoking, radioactive embers of each force disengage.
And there ain't many of 'em left. I've got a battalion of Poles, pretty much undamaged, holding the railroad bridge, and Bob has a big flock of artillerymen up north. So I send the poles to stand on the mountain of souvenirs that used to be about four divisions of troops.

Ha. I "win."

I go, "Well, that turned out to be the stupidest friggin' game we ever played."

Bob sniffs, "Well, next time I'll make my Klingon Attack-Wedge wide enough to squash your *whole* force. Important Safety Tip."

Cool. Let's go again!

-

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx
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wodin
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RE: The AI is smarter than me...

Post by wodin »

That has to be the best AAR I've ever read....absolutely fantastic....more...more!!!

I'm going to read it again.
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Panther Paul
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RE: The AI is smarter than me...

Post by Panther Paul »

Stop...Stopp...I've got tears rolling down my face[X(].

Thats got to be the funiest AAR I've read!
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sterckxe
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RE: The AI is smarter than me...

Post by sterckxe »

ORIGINAL: wodin

That has to be the best AAR I've ever read....absolutely fantastic....more...more!!!

I'm going to read it again.

The same guy wrote a review of BFTB - a bit more serious, but in the same style

m.asp?m=2487684&mpage=1&key=

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx
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wodin
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RE: The AI is smarter than me...

Post by wodin »

Great review aswell...I like his direct style.....I'd love to do one and say what I like about certain issues with the community as he has done and get away with it...he tells it how it is.

Love him todo some AAR's...does he still frequent the forum?

I'm thinking of giving the forum a break for awhile actulaly....if not for good....totally fed up to be honest...grief here grief there...I will just buy the games I want and thats it....getting sick of being shouted down or made to feel you've commited some kind of major sin.
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RE: The AI is smarter than me...

Post by RayWolfe »

ORIGINAL: wodin
Love him todo some AAR's...does he still frequent the forum?
He NEVER visits this board. He hangs out on, and indeed contols, with Eddy, comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical.
Now, young wodin, if you think you're getting roughed up on here go to war-historical and upset Gifty ... easily done, and you will find out what roughing up is all about! [;)]
Cheers
Ray
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RE: The AI is smarter than me...

Post by sterckxe »

ORIGINAL: RayWolfe
Now, young wodin, if you think you're getting roughed up on here go to war-historical and upset Gifty ... easily done, and you will find out what roughing up is all about! [;)]

LOL - "This newsgroup is where the junkyard-dog grognards hang out, and it can be one tough neighborhood when the flame-wars ignite. But you'll also find great eloquence, penetrating analyses, and lots of breaking news that shows up here before it does anywhere else."

William R. Trotter on comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical in the October 2003 issue of PCGamer (US)

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx
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henri51
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RE: The AI is smarter than me...

Post by henri51 »

ORIGINAL: RayWolfe

ORIGINAL: wodin
Love him todo some AAR's...does he still frequent the forum?

Now, young wodin, if you think you're getting roughed up on here go to war-historical and upset Gifty ... easily done, and you will find out what roughing up is all about! [;)]
Cheers
Ray

Tell me about it...[:'(]On second thought, don't[:D]

Henri
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