Ok lets take America out of WW2.

[goodwoodrw]

The US would never stayed neutral, the Brits would have dragged the US of A, one way or another. A borrowed U boat, accidentally misplaced in the mouth of the Hudson River or there abouts, a couple stray toepedoes into the side on a nice juicy neutral fat cruise liner bingo game on, nar would never of happened, would it? [8D] ask the 1800 or so allied French sailors at the bottom of the Med.

[Obsolete]

That is reminding me a LOT of the FAILED sinking scheme Israel made on the U.S. Liberty issue.  It almost damn well worked too.

[Missouri_Rebel]

ORIGINAL: warspite1


...we were Allies then, we are now

Absolutely true. As we will continue to be. Heck, many of us came from Britain originally. If this is some kind of Brit bashin thread, count me out. I just noticed A&A's other thread and while I am a proud American, I do not subscribe to his attitude towards our cousins.

But yes, the world would be much different, and dare I say markedly worse, had the U.S. somehow not joined on the side of the Allies.

P.S., lets not bash on Axis and Allies the game either as it was my gateway drug that has brought me to this addiction. I still enjoy a pick up game from time to time. Simple? Yes. Fun? IMO it is.

That is all

mo reb

[axisandallies]

ORIGINAL: Silverdog

One thing that disgusts me about WW2 is the arrogance of the US. Yes indeed the US played a role in helping defeat tyranny and help spread freedom.

But to claim you did all this on your own??

Sorry, at least 26 million Russians lost their lives fighting the fascists. And they pushed them all the way back to Berlin. Not to mention all those civilians and soldiers in western Europe who paid the ultimate sacrifice.

I am grateful for the help the US gave, but please don’t say you saved the world, it’s an insult to all that sacrificed their lives in a sad period of humanity.

No one said the US alone saved the world, this is a "what if" so please stay on topic.

[axisandallies]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: axisandallies

If America stayed neutral in WW2, how would it have turned out? Let's all be civil here.

Warspite1

I like the last sentence - "Let's all be civil here" given what you said about the "arrogant Brits" who apparently "picked" a fight with Nazi Germany (!!) in the Perfect Game thread......

The question though has achieved the questioner's goal and has got a British / US fight going which is always a great shame.

The whole point is, as Roosevelt well knew, the US HAD to enter the war. If they did not, while there were still some Allies left to fight with, the danger was that they would end up fighting a victorious German/Japanese/Italian foe alone. Remember in late 1941 no one thought the Russians would hold on. Hindsight is great, but was not available to politicians in 1941/1942 anymore than it is now.

So please lets not let an immature person like axisandallies be the catalyst for more US/British mud-slinging - we were Allies then, we are now [:)].

Yes I'm immature, If you don't like the topic don't post.

[axisandallies]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

ORIGINAL: warspite1
...
The question though has achieved the questioner's goal and has got a British / US fight going which is always a great shame.
...
...
So please lets not let an immature person like axisandallies be the catalyst for more US/British mud-slinging - we were Allies then, we are now [:)].
...

+1
axisandallies.
Again, please stay on topic, if you don't like the topic don't post. If you don't understant this please let me know. Also if you feel the need to attack me, please do so in a PM. You are proving my point about the brits, thank you for that.

[axisandallies]

ORIGINAL: Dave Briggs

Two things historically put the US into the war....Pearl Harbor and shortly thereafter, Hitler declared war on the US. If these things wouldn't have happened it would be impossible to guess how events would have played out. But, no matter what, I think the US would have gotten envolved one way or another if it looked like the UK and USSR were facing defeat. There is no way the US could have stood by and let that happen. The Germans controlling Europe and the Japanese controlling the Pacific and Asia would have been disasterous for the US. I'm looking at this from the viewpoint of 1941 and not 2010.

Having said that, I'm pretty sure that if the US would have remained neutral and the Germans and Japanese would have won, then it would only be a matter of time before they set their sights on the US. And if they would have conquered and divided the US then it would only be a little more time before the Germans and Japanese were at each others throats. And who would have won that is beyond me.

Yes I agree with you. The Germans didn't have the resources to invade England so how could they invade the US? Also at the time, I don't see Japan invading the US either.

[axisandallies]

ORIGINAL: jomni

Here's a crazy theory.

The US would be filthy rich!  They can stay away from the war and profit from it by selling weapons to all parties. As if they didn't do this during WW2.  But not getting involved directly would probably boost profits even further.

Anyway... seriously, the US can avoid joning the war in Europe but they cannot avoid the war in the Pacific.

But at what point do they enter the war?

[wodin]

Not keen on this US vs UK stuff going on here....I have my opinions mainly instilled by fact and historical studies......not war films....

[PunkReaper]

Stupid tread since its impossible to take USA out of WW2...... can't imagine a scenario where it would have been in the USA best interests to stay out...... trade, raw materials, oil........ got to come from somewhere. As they say "No man is an island"


As for keeping it civil this thread was only made with the opposite intention

[axisandallies]

ORIGINAL: Punk Reaper

Stupid tread since its impossible to take USA out of WW2...... can't imagine a scenario where it would have been in the USA best interests to stay out...... trade, raw materials, oil........ got to come from somewhere. As they say "No man is an island"


As for keeping it civil this thread was only made with the opposite intention

And another mature brit steps in.

[axisandallies]

ORIGINAL: wodin

Not keen on this US vs UK stuff going on here....I have my opinions mainly instilled by fact and historical studies......not war films....

This is not a US vs UK thread, the only people that are making this so, are yep you guessed it the brits.

[axisandallies]

ORIGINAL: Southern_land

Btritain smashed up by the Luftewaffe in 1940 and strangled by Uboats in 1940-42. All but collapses under starvation rations and lack of resources but no invasion is forthcoming. All 2500 merchant ships lost in the Atlantic must come from British and Allied sources, not US. Commonwealth forces outside of Britain are effectively neutered by lack of resources. German Final victory over the Soviets in 1943 with no lendlease plus the German divisions and Luftewaffe freed up from Western Europe as well as extra German munitions, supplies and resources not consumed combating by the Allied bomber campaign. UK and commonwealth converted to a German client state by 1944. US beats Japan in 44 without Nukes, then goes facist under Lindbergh in 1945 because "all the cool guys at school are facist these days".

I don't see an allied bomber campaign without the US.

[wodin]

Why can't you see and Allied Bombing Campaign without the USA?

I've never heard that before....I'm sure we ran our own bombing campaign....must have misread it....

The Luftwaffe got smashed up bombing Britian I believe not the other way around...infact I think we won that particular part of the War without the USA....though I may have misread that aswell..

[2guncohen]

Even If they dont confront directly the axis powers
They would inderectly provide assets to third party's to engage the axis powers.

[wodin]

Here is a saying from back in the forties

If the German shoots his gun the British ducks
If the British shoot their gun the German ducks
If the American shoots their gun everyone ducks...

[JudgeDredd]

Wodin - I wouldn't bother replying m8 - he's got an agenda and by replying specifically, his little devious wee plan is working.

[Anguille]

If the US had not participated in WW2 (at least from an active point of view), Germany and Japan would have conquered the Soviet Union, India, North Africa and probably Australia among others. Soviet Union managed to defeat Germany only because it had the manpower and , which is often forgotten, a lot of help from the US (tanks etc). Without that support, the Soviet Union would have fallen and Germany would have had enough manpower to finish GB.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Obsolete

As I understand it, the Russians already had the war turned around into a forgone conclusion by the time the Americans had got off their ass in the later stages.  So not much would have changed that I can see.  As for Japan, that's a good question, and to be honest I really don't know.

But basically history would be quite a similar pattern.  Russia Wins... Then the Commies gets into a cold-war vs America again.

The Russians would NEVER have gotten their foot soldier army to Berlin without 400,000 US trucks carrying their supplies.

You might want to look up the astronomically HUGE volume of war materials and natural resources shipped to the Soviets by America. As an example, one of the reasons they were able to concentrate their heavy industry on tank production was because they didn't have to build locamotives since the US shipped them all they needed.

The same is true of many other items. The notion that the huge RED army did it all on their own while the Allied effort was a side show is pure myth.

[Anguille]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: Obsolete

As I understand it, the Russians already had the war turned around into a forgone conclusion by the time the Americans had got off their ass in the later stages.  So not much would have changed that I can see.  As for Japan, that's a good question, and to be honest I really don't know.

But basically history would be quite a similar pattern.  Russia Wins... Then the Commies gets into a cold-war vs America again.

The Russians would NEVER have gotten their foot soldier army to Berlin without 400,000 US trucks carrying their supplies.

You might want to look up the astronomically HUGE volume of war materials and natural resources shipped to the Soviets by America. As an example, one of the reasons they were able to concentrate their heavy industry on tank production was because they didn't have to build locamotives since the US shipped them all they needed.

The same is true of many other items. The notion that the huge RED army did it all on their own while the Allied effort was a side show is pure myth.

As i wrote above, i agree completely. They did however suffer the largest casualties..