Having Trouble With Some Big Cats

[AngryDeemon1]

I normally Playy as the Soviets, And have no trouble with tactics in the Early Years (Thank god for BA-10 and BT-7s). However I am currently having trouble dealing effectively with Those Nasty Jagdpanthers. I am having to move very carefullt with Infantry and small AT teams before trying to take one out, and it useuall takes 2-3 of my ISUs to do it effectively. Does anybody have any suggestions on a better method (Mortars arent realistic At this point due to the almost close combat distances)

[Irinami]

As my brother told me...

"If you can get 2.5:1 loss ratios between your armour and anti-tank guns, you're doing allright."

Just be more patient; use scouts to spot them, arty to suppress them, and scouts+a/t infantry to take them out. ... Easier said than done, I know.

[challenge]

It's more difficult against a human player than the AI, but the main thing to do is flank them. A side hit isn't much better than the front, but the slope is less. From the rear you can take them fairly easy.

The problem is that the tactic of moving up one AFV, then another to spread out the firepower and reduce the to-hit number doesn't help in this case -- you may not have anything left after two or three shots. You want to move out of sight of the JgPanther and then force a turn or appear behind them. Again, this isn't all that easy unless you have a lot of running room (big board...).

[vahauser]

Challenge has the right idea. The best way to kill the big cats is flank shots. The best way to get those flank shots is to use combined arms and terrain to your advantage. Be careful but don't be timid.

[Capt. Pixel]

If your opponent isn't savvy enough to have reduced his response range on those JagdPanthers, you might be able to get him to take long, low accuracy opportunity shots at small moving targets. Kubelwagens are excellent in this capacity.

The JagdPanther has one major drawback - the turretless gun. It's relatively easy to get them to spin about in response to lesser threats before you let loose with YOUR big guns.

The second drawback is the relative few shots a JagdPanther can get off in a turn. After two or three shots, all that TD has left is it's machinegun.

Another thing to consider when battling the big beasties is that they're just as vulnerable to damage as any other vehicle. Main Guns can get shot off or breakdown, Fire Control Optics can get removed, the tank can be Immobilized, the toolbox can get destroyed.

And if you hit any tank enough times, the supression will be so high that an infantry unit can waltz right up to the beast and assault without fear of immediate reprisal. (for this tactic, I'd suggest setting YOUR response range to '0' before moving to reduce the chance that you'll be seen.)

[AngryDeemon1]

Thanks everyone. Well my opponent is sandman20 who I gather isnt a newbie:) and he has proceded to singlehandedly slaughter 70% of my armoured assets:)

[Katana]

Well, the guy still has some weaknesses you can exploit..
Not bringing enough inf to protect and support his main AFVs is one of them
Your'e on the right track using infantry AT to take on his cats. Hope you got some molotovs handy.

[sandman20]

Katana knows my weaknesses, he is right this time punishing my U.S troops with heavy hand...

[Toontje]

Thanks to everyone for teaching my opponent how to take out StuG's, too.

He's using it to great effect I notice.

[AngryDeemon1]

Duechen Artshturm est kaput:mad:

[challenge]

Originally posted by Toontje
Thanks to everyone for teaching my opponent how to take out StuG's, too.

He's using it to great effect I notice.

So to be fair we should advise you also.

The inverse is true for the other side. Turretless AFVs have a distict disadvantage in accuracy confronting multiple targets, and even 75s -- which on the StuG is a low velocity gun -- lose penetration fast as range goes up. I've had reasonable luck with StuG AP round at around 15 hexes (750 meters). Penetration is still effective out to about 20 hexes (1 Km), but accuracy drops once you get past 17 hexes (more or less). The low profile on the assault gun helps to reduce hits and putting them on a higher elevation helps as well.

TDs, also turretless and with slow fire rates, need support. Armor support could be later models of the Pzkw IV mounting the higher velocity 75 mm gun or the 50mm Pzkw IIIh. The problem with the Pz III is that it won't do much damage to T-34s from either the front or the side, and needs to be really close even from the rear. Just having either of these tanks as support, however, will slow down the approach of the opposition.

Infantry is essential as part of the defensive screen for either the StuG or TD groups. Standard infantry squads screen against the Soviet infantry which carries Molotov Cocktails and are really mean to armor. Adding in some MG teams works against them as well. To help against armor that gets in close something like the recon patrol, spec ops or engineers with satchel charges or other AT weapons (SS have an AT rocket early in the war) will slow the approach as well.

Make surre, before you end your turn to check the ranges of the armor as well as the infantry support. A weapon firing at a long distance may cause your unit to change range and you want to start at your optimum.

Of course, this is just some preliminary ideas.

[Belisarius]

Now why would anyone want to take out a Jagdpanther? They're pretty! :p

[Toontje]

That helps, tnx! Too late for current fight, but future will profit.

SS really rocks yeah with their Wurfmine. Altrough I think it's an AT mine instead of a rocket.