Another Mutual Defence Pact question

[Haree78]

So I make a MDP with asn Ally thinking he's a reliable sort and both our military combined can help against all the bullies that are near us. Sure enough some nasty sorts started on my Ally and he was quick to ask me to go to War with them. We crushed them for their crimes, great stuff.

Next a much bigger threat started attacking my border colonies and unafraid because of my Alliance I decided that kind of action deserved War and so I declared it. However could I get my allies with the Mutual Defence Pact to go to War aswell? No way. I couldn't find a way to request the same as the AI do. The best I could find to fit it was opening a trade negotiation and offering nothing for a War with my enemy. They would say that they cannot be threatened by me....odd...

So anyway how can you use a Mutual Defence Pact to your benefit like the AI does?

[Deldk]

You need to be the one that is attacked, and not attacking someone. It is a defence pact, and will be available when defending, not attacking. 

[Haree78]

Ok which leads me to my next questions.
So the pact is of no use if my enemy just attacks me without declaring war?
Also you say I can do it if they declare War on me?  How do I do it in that case then?

[Haree78]

Ok so I played some more tonight. I was declared war on several times and I found no option to get the AI to declare war on my aggressor however when I checked the diplomacy screen 1 of my Allies was now at war with my aggressor and another AI who I also had a MDP with wasn't.

Someone care to explain
1) What was going on in my game with 2 different AIs acting differently?

2) How you are meant to request your allies to honour the treaty? Deldk suggests I should have an option somewhere and I couldn't for the life of me find it.

[Alex Gilbert]

I do not believe there is a way to force your allies to honor the MDP. I believe they are automatically alerted to someone attacking you. Best you can do is to check their reputation and their race's trustworthiness (Kiadans, for example, are great allies) before making the alliance.

The downside to not honoring the pact is the reputation hit as well as the specific ally hating you for the betrayal. Some are willing to accept this though (rather than committing suicide by declaring war on a superior force).

[lordxorn]

ORIGINAL: Haree78

Ok which leads me to my next questions.
So the pact is of no use if my enemy just attacks me without declaring war?
Also you say I can do it if they declare War on me?  How do I do it in that case then?

One of the interesting things is that DW allows a sort of skirmish to happen without a formal declaration of war.

You can have your ships fire on any other empire's ships and even destroy a few ships with out a state of war.

Reload your game (if you can), and do the same thing back to the aggressor without declaring war. Attack his outpost, and make him be the aggressor.

Like a previous poster said a MDP is exactly that, it is not an Alliance.

[feygan]

ORIGINAL: lordxorn

ORIGINAL: Haree78

Ok which leads me to my next questions.
So the pact is of no use if my enemy just attacks me without declaring war?
Also you say I can do it if they declare War on me?  How do I do it in that case then?

One of the interesting things is that DW allows a sort of skirmish to happen without a formal declaration of war.

You can have your ships fire on any other empire's ships and even destroy a few ships with out a state of war.

Reload your game (if you can), and do the same thing back to the aggressor without declaring war. Attack his outpost, and make him be the aggressor.

Like a previous poster said a MDP is exactly that, it is not an Alliance.

No need to get into skirmishes, this can lead to big drops in your reputation if you hit some of the civilian bases and ships. Instead just use politics and stick them with trade sanctions along with some demands of them will soon aggravate your chosen aggressor into declaring war on you. Or by building a mining station in their territory and leaving a small task force to guard it mean you incur the "remove your military ships" wraith.

These things combined well and timely can drop your diplomatic status just as fast as attacking them without warning but you don't suffer the rep loss, rep takes too long to gain to risk throwing it away.

[Falokis]

I agree the MDP is worthless. I've only had one person to honor it to date and that was because my rep to them was like +80.

[tornnight]

ORIGINAL: lordxorn

ORIGINAL: Haree78

Ok which leads me to my next questions.
So the pact is of no use if my enemy just attacks me without declaring war?
Also you say I can do it if they declare War on me?  How do I do it in that case then?

One of the interesting things is that DW allows a sort of skirmish to happen without a formal declaration of war.

You can have your ships fire on any other empire's ships and even destroy a few ships with out a state of war.

Reload your game (if you can), and do the same thing back to the aggressor without declaring war. Attack his outpost, and make him be the aggressor.

Like a previous poster said a MDP is exactly that, it is not an Alliance.

I actually love that feature.

Sometimes an empire will blockade me or destroy some of my mining ships.

If I quickly destroy their fleet. They get pissed off and declare war.

If I don't do anything drastic, they just continue to pick off targets of opportunity and deny all responsibility. Now that is ultra realistic in my book.

[Shark7]

While you can't get them to honor the MDP if you are the one who attacks first, you can usually 'persuade' your allies to declare war with a big enough carrot...IE money or tech in trade for DOW.