OT- Sort of; National Treasure in Danger

[The Gnome]

Don, the people working there are really knowledgeable but the ship itself is sadly lacking. This reflects Seaport Museum who are its owners. They have been a very poorly run organization, moving from one financial scandal to another. Philadelphia is rich in nautical history and it's a shame it's in such poor stewardship.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Don D

I was by chance on the Olympia last Saturday.  We went down to Penn's Landing to take a tour of DD Bulkeley, and since Bulkeley was a little late arriving we toured Olympia and SS Becuna which are permanently tied up there.

I hate to put in an ill word, but Olympia is a rather poor museum.  The woodwork in the ship is impressive, especially in the officer's quarters and meeting rooms.  That was neat to see especially after seeing the rather spartan accommodations of the Becuna.  Beyond that, though, there's not much to tell you what you're looking at.  There's all sorts of hoists and lifts and chains going down through the decks, but no signs to tell you what they are or how they were used or why they were important.  The ships guns are still there, but very little information about them.  It's too bad, because it should be an informative tour, especially since I know relatively little about the Spanish-American war.  They did fire a few blanks out of the 6-lbers on deck as a salute to the Bulkeley on her way up the Delaware.  When the guy 20 feet away yells "Fire in the Hole!", he's not joking!  [X(]

Onboard the Becuna we got a 15 minute lecture on torpedoes from a former submariner.  He explained how the gyros aimed it, how the propulsion mechanism worked, and why so many of them were faulty.  That was cool.

how "open" is the ship? (aka....how good a chance do i have at getting thrown off or arrested like during the Texas visit?)

[Don D]

Gnome - It's too bad that it's been mismanaged so badly by the Seaport Museum. Unfortunately that does make it a tougher sell for funding. Maybe they can borrow some from the DRPA, everyone else does.

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

how "open" is the ship? (aka....how good a chance do i have at getting thrown off or arrested like during the Texas visit?)

The top two decks of the Olympia are mostly open. You're not allowed down into engineering, and the officers quarters are mostly set up so you can see into the room but not touch. Someone would have to notice you were in the wrong place for you to get thrown off, though. There must have been people working on the boat because they fired off one of the guns, but they weren't very obvious. I didn't check all the doors to see if they were locked or just closed.

In the Becuna you're also kept out of engineering but of course there's a lot less space in general. There were two submariners there answering questions. The conning tower was open.

The Bulkeley they kept you on a path and I certainly wouldn't have pushed my luck. She may have only been in for the weekend anyway.

[Nikademus]

mmm....thats disapointing. Being so old, the engineering spaces would be of particular interest. (HMS's Warrior's engine room was the most interesting part of the ship) [:(] I probably should stick to the path though.....i think i used up all my luck on the Texas after climbing up into the interior of the tripod formast.

[Mynok]

Man, I didn't even know one of those ships still existed.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Man, I didn't even know one of those ships still existed.

She almost doesn't. She lost her original guns for example due to WW1. Replicas replaced them.

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

This has not been my experience over the last ten years. I hire employees in many nations--the skill set and productivity of young American workers is exceptional. They are less willing to work 60 hour (or even 40 hour) workweeks, but they get an amazing amount done. Most productive workforce in the world. Knowledge of history is weak, but I find that all over the world too. Mathematics remains a relative weakness to other primary education systems, but the utility of calculus in most peoples lives is very limited.

Expectation management is an issue--they want to work 32 hrs per week and get paid like their fathers who put in 60+. However, this is manageable.

Employment At Will doctrine in the U.S. makes assembling a high quality workforce dead easy compared to other countries.

Americans have always been somewhat ignorant of things drilled into kids in other countries. My father was in a special photographic unit in WW II. Everyone in the unit had to qualify for OCS and had at least some college. My father won a $5 bet because he was able to name all 48 states in less than 10 minutes. He only took 5. Nobody else in his unit could come close.

Since the 1960s, American elementary and high school did decline sharply. I was right on the edge of that decline. Many teachers compared my class to the year before us and my class was always under performing compared to where the previous year had been. I went to a private high school that only took about 20% of those who applied. One of the teachers told us my class was the worst 3rd year class the school had ever seen and the current batch of sophomores were making my class look like geniuses.

American colleges and universities have continued to be fairly good. Fewer American students qualify though, so more foreign students are let in. Many universities, even some quite prestigious, have special classes to bring students up to speed on what they should have learned in high school. One of my classmates and a semi-friend through elementary and high school had to go to one of these classes for English, even though his grades were among the top of his class all through school.

American workers do tend to produce more per hour than any other country in the world, but the education system is shaky and people who are good at gaming the system can slip through the cracks.

When I worked at Boeing, I was the last new hire for several years, then they started hiring again for the 777. We had a bunch of new grads in a matter of a few months. All of them had good grades in school and most went to schools with good reputations, but the quality of the work was all over the map. We had two sisters who had graduated together from Seattle U. One was a very quick learner and picked up the job very fast, the other was completely incompetent and she eventually got shoved off to some other department.

The most important things a person needs to learn in school isn't directly taught in school. Up there at the top of the list is to learn how to learn. The real world isn't going to spoon feed you what you need to know. You will need to figure out a lot of things on your own. Some people also learn that cutting corners will help them get an edge in school, but it works against them in the work world. I suspect the incompetent sister copied a lot of her work from her sister. If got her through school, but she was incompetent as an engineer.

A year or two back someone posted something about the Myers Briggs here on the forum. The difference between Intuitives and Sensors makes a difference in the modern work world too. Intuitives make connections between things quite easily. Sensors are more linear in their approach.

The world has been a Sensor's world for most of human civilization. Taking the time to go linearly from A to B to C, etc. was possible. Most people only had to learn one skill and they did it for 20-30 years until they retired or died. Even with the industrial revolution, the skills most people needed to learn were not terribly complex.

The modern world is demanding more and more Intuition. The best paid jobs are mostly ones that require Intuitive abilities. The tools of our life were created by Intuitives. The world wide web is a very Intuitive invention. It's laid out the way Intuitives think.

Sensors are the majority of every population in the world. For thousands of years, the world has been laid out for their benefit and their natural skills. Now it isn't and many of them are lost trying to catch up. I recall when the Myers Briggs thread was running, most WitP players were Intuitives and the forum is dominant Intuitives. What seems easy and "intuitively obvious" to many of us, isn't to the bulk of the world.

I don't know what we're going to do with the Sensors who can't keep up. There are fewer jobs for them these days. They aren't stupid, the world has changed and left them behind.

I would have made an awful farmer or factory worker. I get bored too easily and I would likely make a lot of mistakes because of it. I think I'm a fairly decent engineer and programmer because of those same things that would make me an awful factory worker.

Bill

[TOMLABEL]

Just got this off SteelNavy.com posted yesterday:

USNI magazine Naval History just arrived today. On page 12 there is a brief article regarding the status of the Olympia which confirms that this may be the last summer that she remains open to the public. Her future is very much in doubt; some historian pundits are wringing their hands, but little else seems to be happening aside from the efforts of a "grassroots" organization called the Friends of the Cruiser Olympia. They have a website. Take a look at www.fotco.org.

This country is in deep trouble in many ways.

TOMLABEL

[Big B]

Well, the reason I posted this sad news here was twofold,
First - knowing the readers of this forum, I thought the news would be of interest certainly.
Secondly - also knowing the readers of this forum, I rather hoped that some connected person may actually have some influence in saving her fate - either through some political connection to make her a public political cause, or through the talent of some wordsmith out there - perhaps to create another "Old Ironsides" style public appeal that may end up resonating in places that would matter.

I guess we will find out if part of the readership of this forum is as high placed as some of us have pondered.

And last, let me close by saying that this is about preserving history...'world historical treasures'.
I am very proud to be American, and in that regard I am proud of Olympia's past to our nation's history.
But that is not what motivates me.
Had the internet been around in 1973, when the historic former German battlecruiser Goeben (the Turkish Yavuz) was towed off for scrapping - I would have been equally dismayed. I have always felt we owed some stuardship to future generations, in the same manner as national parks.

Goodnight all.
B

[afspret]

Someone needs to ask Obama's people why they just gave $14 million to help preserve the remains of a concentration camp in Europe but won't give up any $$$ to help preserve historical sites here.

p.s. I saw it on the news ticker on CNN, so it must be true[;)]!

[roeddog]

Nothing much has changed since your visit John. The Patriots Point Development authority estimated in OCT09 that it would cost 100 million to repair the old girl. Since then I've not heard of any new developments or the current status and I'm a North Charleston resident; not sure why it's not being shouted from the high church steeples in Charleston, if they loose the Yorktown that'll do Patriots Point in because it's what draws people there and it's a major boon to the tourist industry too. Not to mention the history of that ship or any others around our country
They did just take on an Douglas EA-3B Skywarrior on 02JUL10 for display, so I am hopeful that by doing so it's a signal that the ship will be preserved.
I don't know of any requests from the PPDA to the general public for help, although I don't know how much of a dent we could put in the 100 mil price tag. There was some talk of eliminating some of the other vessels at the Point to cut down on the maintenece costs and put it towards the Yorktown but haven't heard anything official, they also discussed building a wall around her and basically drydocking her.

The attrocious amounts we as a nation spend on useless things should certainly go to preserving our history, but unfortunately the Navy is prohibited from funding donated ships

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

The USS Yorktown down at Charleston runs the same risk as Olympia; the Navy wants the Maritime Museum there to perform some needed hull work on the carrier, but they're having trouble raising the money.  When I was there last October they were cautiously optimistic they'd be able to raise the funds through donations, state funds and perhaps corporate sponsorship, but I've not heard of anything since then.